The Jack Hopkins Show Podcast
The Jack Hopkins Show Podcast; where stories about the power of focus and resilience are revealed by the people who lived those stories
Jack Hopkins has been studying human behavior for over three-decades. He's long had a passion for having conversations with fascinating people, and getting them to share the wisdom they've acquired through years of being immersed in their area of expertise, and overcoming the challenges and obstacles that are almost always part of the equation.
The Jack Hopkins Show Podcast
Unveiling the Crisis: Chris Jones and Jess Piper on Water Quality, Big Agriculture, and Rural Activism
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Prepare to be enlightened by our latest episode of the Jack Hopkins Show, featuring two remarkable guests: retired research engineer Chris Jones and Jess Piper, the executive director of Blue Missouri. Chris dives into the alarming water quality issues affecting rural Iowa and the broader nation, while Jess shares her inspiring journey into political activism and recounts a disturbing encounter with law enforcement. They join forces to expose the rampant misuse of land, the devastating impact of big money on our environment, and the critical need for progressive organizing in rural communities. You'll gain new insights into their upcoming event on August 7th at Big Grove Brewery in Iowa City, where these pressing topics will be discussed further.
Our conversation sheds light on the severe health concerns tied to water contamination in rural areas, with Iowa's high cancer rates taking center stage. Jess provides personal anecdotes about the detrimental effects of crop dusting on her gardening and her neighbors, emphasizing the urgent need for action. Chris presents the chilling statistic that Iowa holds the second-highest cancer rate in the U.S., linked to agricultural practices inundated with nitrates and chemicals. This episode underscores the crucial need to reevaluate modern farming techniques and their far-reaching health and environmental impacts.
We also tackle the broader implications of monopolized agriculture on rural economies and communities. Chris offers a stark analysis of how big agriculture's focus on ethanol production monopolizes fertile land, reducing local food production and contributing to environmental degradation. Jess and Chris highlight the decline of small towns, the loss of public services, and the overwhelming consequences for rural economies. Through engaging stories and strategic insights, we emphasize the importance of community engagement and grassroots efforts, inspiring listeners to take an active role in preserving and revitalizing their rural communities.
The Jack Hopkins Now Newsletter https://wwwJackHopkinsNow.com
Clean Water and Rural Decline
Speaker 1Welcome to the Jack Hopkins Show podcast , where stories about the power of focus and resilience are revealed by the people who live those stories and now the host of the Jack Hopkins Show podcast , jack Hopkins .
Speaker 2Hello and welcome to the Jack Hopkins Show podcast . I'm your host , jack Hopkins . Today I have two guests with me , both very bright and intelligent individuals but , as you'll find out , both very likable , which is always nice . Jess Piper is the executive director for Blue Missouri and hosts a weekly podcast called Dirt Road Democrat . She was an American literature teacher for 16 years and , after the 2016 election of Trump , just became politically active . She ran for office in 2022 for state representative in Northwest Missouri . She was not successful . However , she used this experience to organize progressives in rural Missouri .
Speaker 2My second guest is Mr Chris Jones . Chris is a retired research engineer from the University of Iowa . He studies and writes about agriculture , the environment and water . Modeshiftorg said this about Chris Jones Because he writes with grace and style , reports with precision and has a platform tied to the University of Iowa . Nobody has attracted more attention to the causes and sources of farm-related pollution than Chris Jones . Now they're here to talk about farm-related issues more specifically and primarily , water safe water but they're also here to talk about an event they have coming up August 7th . Talk about an event . They have coming up August 7th Join Jess Piper and Chris Jones for a conversation on clean water and rural decline . Wednesday , august 7th , 6 pm at Big Grove Brewery in Iowa City , iowa . I also might mention that they both write on Substack Jess writes the View from Rural Missouri and Chris is the author of Swine Republic Struggles with the Truth About Agriculture and Water Quality .
Speaker 2Now I have to tell you , although I grew up in a rural area , grew up in a rural area , my parents were not farmers . My grandparents farmed , but I was not a farm kid per se . So I learned a lot of things today , and one thing I learned was our water in rural areas is in trouble . One other thing I learned was our land is being misused and big money plays a big role in the misuse of our land and the resulting pollution to our water . So with that , let's get right into this podcast , so maybe you can learn something new as well .
Speaker 2All right , well , as I said earlier , I'm so glad to have you both here today . I've been guilty of focusing exclusively on the national the presidential election , which is critically important , of course , but there are issues at home for all of us in our own local area , and you're both here today to talk about some of those issues and , more specifically , clean water and rural decline . So , chris , let me let you kick it off . I know you write . Swine Republic struggles with the truth about agriculture and water quality . Let me ask you what prompted you to start this newsletter .
Speaker 3Well , you know , I'm an Iowan , I'm from Iowa , I grew up in the Des Moines area , my folks are both from rural Iowa and so I'm concerned about my state and you know we're losing our young people here in Iowa . We see about 70 out of our 99 counties are losing population . You know we have these issues at the national scale of course that you've talked about there , about urban versus rural , and so I think Iowa is sort of a crystallization of that . We've had a decline in our rural areas with the consolidation of agriculture , people moving to the cities or moving out of the state , and so I think what's happened here in Iowa is really key , especially for the Democratic Party . If they're going to try to get votes from rural areas right , make inroads into rural Iowa and rural America . We need to understand what's going on and , as I said , I think Iowa is a crystallization of that what's happening at the national scale .
Speaker 2Right , and do you think that's why the Iowa caucus has always been such a nationally recognized big event ? Is because Iowa does kind of represent so much of the rest of the nation .
Speaker 3If you're a white person in America , iowa sort of represents what you remember right from your childhood . You know the heartland sort of theme and the rugged agrarian scratching out a living against all odds on the prairie . That's America , right , that's what you think of America as America's not really that anymore . But I think people had a fascination with the Iowa caucus that you know . It was the first and this is the America that we remember , and so that first in the nation status was deserved .
Speaker 3Because of that I'm not sure that's right anymore , but for sure , the Iowa caucus has definitely contributed to the national perception of the state .
Speaker 2Absolutely it has . Jess , first of all , I'll ask you do you want to talk about at all your experience this morning ? Okay , because I think it's important for people to know Before we get into what Jess was ready to come on here and talk about . She had a pretty jolting experience this morning , one that is happening at a quicker and quicker rate throughout our nation , coast to coast . We're hearing about it more often , and it's got deadly , deadly potential consequences . So , jess , could you share with us what happened ?
Speaker 4Yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 4Well , it's weird because I had just read an article about the rise of political violence , I think in the Atlantic , and went outside and was doing my gardening and I saw a sheriff's deputy kind of creeping up into my long driveway and I was like well , here we go , someone's probably suing me for stuff .
Speaker 4But he got out and started asking me about my kids , which sent me into a panic because I have four adult children . And anyway we found out that someone had made some terrible accusations to send the police to my house this morning . Luckily , I live in a very small town and the deputy who showed up lived just down the road from me . He's very well aware of my politics and you know things that go on , and so he had some questions for me and then asked to see you know things that go on . And so he had some questions for me and then asked to see you know my family members to make sure that everybody was okay . But it's SWATing is what it's called when someone you know makes a false report to send basically the SWAT department to your house to terrorize you . Maybe I mean you don't know , these things have ended up with people being shot and killed , right .
Speaker 4You don't put your hands up at the right moment or whatever . So it's a form of political violence . It happened to me and nobody , from nowhere , and so we're in scary times . You know . I talked about it . My immediate reaction was to shut down and cry somewhere .
Speaker 4But , you know , I have my husband and my son and my kids , and so then I thought , you know , I should tell the story , to tell them that they didn't do what they wanted to do . I wasn't . They didn't send the SWAT department out and somebody on Twitter said you know the Jason Aldean song ? Try that in a small town . Right right .
Speaker 4Which is an inoffensive song , but I was like , exactly , I mean , it doesn't work the same way here that it would in Kansas City . But you know , I'm not laughing about the political violence that that is occurring more and more and it's really dangerous to people , especially for someone who doesn't look like me , right .
Speaker 2Right , absolutely , and that's a great point .
Speaker 2That's a great point Because we can rest assured that if you were a person of color , the law enforcement officer coming up your , your driveway , even unconsciously and we know this through scientific studies Malcolm Gladwell talks about it in one of his books that unconscious bias that has been created in the country , and there is this proclivity to shoot quicker or to pull the trigger when you would not have .
Speaker 2So , yes , I mean , as crazy as it sounds and I suppose if you are a person of color listening to this , it probably doesn't even sound crazy to you but to somebody like us in the rural Midwest , to say , wow , being white this morning might have been the difference . So , yeah , the political violence , as we should point out because I think it is important to point out it's largely one-sided . You know , democrats , democratic leadership we don't have somebody that's hitting the stage and stoking violence . We don't have voters , democratic voters online calling for violence or , you know , posting pictures of ourselves and our family with guns . So , when we talk about political violence , there's one side that's being persecuted and one side , for the most part , that's doing the damage , doing the threats , and , as you mentioned , there have been deaths . So I wanted to make sure , if you wanted to , to get this in on this podcast .
Speaker 4Yes , I'm so sorry I have to take one moment away to unlock my door because my husband is here . Can you clip this real quick ? Okay , right , one second .
Speaker 2Letting a spouse in might be an important thing . So Chris and I will chat a little more . Let's talk about rural water Because , having grown up , my grandparents were farmers but my parents were not , so I wasn't a farm kid per se . I just lived where farm kids lived . Rural water is the lifeblood of a small community .
Speaker 3So sure , and so much of our land here in Iowa is committed to agricultural production , right , and so we have about 85% of our land is in some form of production , and so we have about 85% of our land is in some form of production , and so we have a really terrible problem here in Iowa with nutrient pollution , nitrate Nitrogen is a regulated drinking water , a parameter for municipal water supplies , but we have about 7,000 private wells in Iowa that have been contaminated with nitrate above the safe drinking water limit , and so that's a manifestation of the economic activity that's taking place on the countryside right , and so corn production , especially for ethanol , but also for livestock feed , the fertilization of the corn , is what results in these contaminated wells , and so it's not urban people that really suffer here .
Rural Water Quality and Health Concerns
Speaker 3Des Moines has an impaired water supply , but the city of Des Moines has the capacity to cope with this problem on a financial basis . If you live in a small town of a thousand people and your well is contaminated , that is a burden , right . That's a huge burden for a town to deal with something like that , and so the burden of this agricultural production in Iowa and elsewhere falls mainly on rural people , and this is something that I think both political parties have just not been able to get their head around .
Speaker 2Right , jess , I'd like for you to contribute to this as well . You live , as we would say , in the sticks , so tell us from your perspective as I mentioned , I think of water as the lifeblood of rural communities what's your take on rural water and challenges that we face ?
Speaker 4I think it's really important to note for your listeners that Chris is doing something that it takes a lot of moxie . He's speaking out against big ag . They have kind of captured both parties . They are doing things that are poisoning rural people and Chris had the audacity to write it down and to tell us what's happening . When he talks about these nitrates , I mean he talks he's talking about cancer causing agents . I mean he talks he's talking about cancer causing agents .
Speaker 4He knows that . You know . I think Iowa has the second largest rate or increase of cancers in the country , in Iowa , and so I think , when people look at the heartland and look in places in the center of the country and think of this you know , idyllic space , they don't understand what big agriculture has done to our spaces . When they talk about farmers in general , they're talking about , you know , corporations that own 5,000 acres . They're not talking about someone trying to , you know , make a living off the land with 60 acres . Right , because that's what we envision . And what Chris is talking about is almost taboo , and the fact that he's come out so forceful in this is really something that we have to admire , because our water , that's all we have clean air and clean water .
Speaker 4Missouri , in 2019 , took away local regulations of CAFOs , which are concentrated animal feeding operations . So think of these huge barns that are holding cows or hogs or , you know , chickens or turkeys , and so they produce just millions of gallons of waste that has to go somewhere , right ? So they're putting them in these big lagoons , telling us that , oh , it's not going to leak out . You know , that's not going to get in your water . It absolutely does get into your water .
Speaker 4And I'll tell you something real personal . I was out gardening this morning and my neighbor from across the street came over and she was looking at my flowers . She said I'm worried about my tomatoes and I was like why you always have , like she has these beautiful tomatoes ? She said because the crop duster came over last week and I swear they dropped some on our house . And I was like Fern , I just accused my husband of killing my flowers next to one of the beds and he was like I didn't put anything there , jess . And I was like well , somebody did something . And now I'm like crap , they're dropping it out of the airplanes , aren't they ?
Speaker 2Right To that , about three blocks to the south of me , three blocks to the south of me , oh , there's probably 100 acres that gets dusted , gets crop dusted , and last year I was out in the backyard I was mowing and I could hear them . And when they leave the airport , which is fairly close by you know , you see them come over . So I knew they were crop dusting and at some point I could smell it . I could smell it and no big deal . Oh , they're crop dusting .
Speaker 2But the further I mowed I thought if I can smell it then it's reaching my lungs . If it's reaching my lungs , it's reaching my circulatory system . This is not an ideal situation . So , chris , if we could talk for a moment about the cancer aspect of it , it's been probably 10 years ago and I had stopped at Cracker Barrel in Columbia , missouri , and , as often happens with people , there was a gentleman sitting next to me and we struck up a conversation . While I cannot remember his name , he taught and was a professor at Missouri University , and we eventually landed on the topic of what you are here to talk about the things that are winding up in our water and its impact on our health , and none of it was good . Can you share a little bit with me ?
Speaker 3So Jess mentioned Iowa has the second highest cancer rate in the United States . We're the only state , the only state out of 50 , where the cancer rate is increasing . And you know we have the most , the highest percentage of our land in agricultural production out of any state . As I said earlier , 85% of our land . And so we've known . You know people are treating this like it's new , a new finding . No , it's
Agricultural Pollution and Advocacy
Speaker 3not .
Speaker 3We've known for a long time that these things that we're doing here in agriculture in Iowa have consequences for human health , and so EPA has a limit on municipal drinking water for nitrate of 10 parts per million . We know there are health risks associated with drinking high nitrate water down to three parts per million . We know there are health risks associated with drinking high nitrate water down to three parts per million . The limit for cities is 10 parts per million . We know three parts per million has an effect . We've known for a long time 20 years or more that kids that go to school near CAFOs have doubled the risk of asthma in Iowa . We've known that . We know that women drinking nitrate above about five parts per million have a higher incidence of birth defects , of giving birth to a child with birth defects . We've known these things for a long time . This is not new . But yet the industry has such a death grip on the legislature here and on the politics and on the economics and so many other things that we don't talk about these things right .
Speaker 3People hear these like oh wow . When did we find this out ? Well , 20 years ago . Well , why haven't we done anything ? Well , it's because the industry keeps the legislature and the rest of our government from doing anything .
Speaker 2So what are ? If we were going to look at what ? What's one thing I was going to say to you let's just look at one thing . Going to look at what ? What's one thing I was going to say to you , let's just look at one thing . If there was one thing that would be a a positive and measurable step in the right direction on addressing this , what would it be ?
Speaker 3well , you know the , the corn soy system that we have . That's uh , you know , predominant not just in I but throughout the Corn Belt from the Dakotas to western Ohio . It's largely unregulated , and so we have a massive amount of land committed to this economic activity and the pollution is not regulated from it . And so we need to regulate the pollution , like we do every other industry in the United States . On an economic perspective , we have a massive amount of land committed to the use to produce corn for fuel ethanol .
Speaker 3This is probably the dumbest natural resource decision this country has ever made is to commit all the best farmland on earth to the production of corn for ethanol . It does not produce a greenhouse gas benefit . It does not really clean up the air anymore after we've improved the emission standards for automobiles . There's only one reason we do this and it's just a luxury economic activity . And so in Iowa we have 60% of our corn go to ethanol . We have an area of land 11,000 square miles that we use to produce corn for ethanol . That's the size of 20 counties . So 20% of our state is used to do this . And why are we doing this ? It pollutes our water . There's really no environmental benefit . We're the largest oil producing country on earth . Now we export oil . Why are we doing this ? It's just to line the pockets of millionaires . We need to get rid of ethanol for vehicles .
Speaker 2We need to get rid of ethanol for vehicles . Thank you for that , because I learned something here that I didn't know , and I think that's the whole idea behind a podcast for me is that people watch or listen and then they come away with something they didn't know before that , with that knowledge that can help contribute to the solutions . All right . So , jess , you had mentioned Chris's moxie on taking big ag on and I was curious is your moxie because I know you have it , I watch you on social media is that just part of who you are , your personality and identity , or is that something that , once you got into politics and were dealing with the issues you were , you said you know I'm going to have to push myself to be a little edgier .
Speaker 4Well , I was born and raised an evangelical , so I was born to be quiet . I keep sweetening my way .
Speaker 4However , once I started paying attention to politics . I was born and raised an evangelical , so I was born to be quiet . I keep sweetening my bait . However , once I started paying attention to politics , I realized that there was no pushback . A lot of times , democrats don't feel good about going in and saying the things that need to be said , and so I felt like , if nothing else , somebody needs to tell the truth and say what's going on around us . I mean , when I looked around , I was a teacher for 16 years . I was making $41,000 a year with a master's degree . I was having to make sure that my kids had their supplies . I was dipping into my pocket all the time to do these things . And so I started looking at state policies and I was like , oh , missouri's 50th in teacher pay , 49th in educational funding , who's doing this ? And then I look at the fact that the Missouri GOP has been in power for 22 years . So you know connecting the dots . And then I realized that my neighbors weren't connecting the dots , and so it just it was born out of . I think .
Speaker 4As rural folks , we just say things plainly and just say what needs to be said , and that's what I hear all the time from people . They're not trying to be rude when they read my writing , but they're like you just say things simply and I'm like well , I'm just telling you just the facts , just the truth about what's going on , right , no need to embellish it . And so I think it came from that . And now , with the pushback I get , I know it's because they need people like me to be silent . They don't want anyone to know that people like me and people like Chris exist in rural spaces . They want everyone to think that we're a monolith , we're all Republicans , we're all going to , you know , toe the line . And we absolutely are not . We know , in Missouri we vote for progressive ballot initiatives . Here's the thing about Missouri we have a complete and total abortion ban and we have recreational weed . Like there's no rhyme or reason to what is going on , right .
Speaker 2It is . When you put it that way , you know it's like wow , and there's something about . I admire both of you in particularly in that sense that you speak out , because , as we all three know , when you talk about the kind of issues that we do , and as bluntly as we do , you stand out and not in the way that you always wanted to when you were a kid . There are a lot of people that don't feel like we do , and in this era , it presents the potential for danger . It's something that's always in the back of my mind . I will say that , chris , do you encounter any pushback , either directly or indirectly , from big ag ?
Speaker 3well , um , the answer to that is yes , I had . I've had several members of the legislature um , try , try to shut me up and in fact , uh , two of them , about a year ago , asked the university where I worked , the university of iowa , to do something about me . And I kind of got tired of it and I decided to retire , and so I'm retired now . Um , but you know , I , I don't have sheriff's deputies coming up to my house , you know , with guns drawn , like , yes , but , um , you know people , I think the whole courageous thing is a little bit overplayed , I feel for me anyway , I think , you know people always say I'm outspoken . Well , no , I just say I'm spoken , I'm not outspoken , I'm just spoken , I'm just talking about it . And people make the choice not to talk about these things in an honest and direct way .
Speaker 3That's the choice right the choice isn't to be courageous or honest or whatever . I think the choice is the other direction , and so I feel . You know , I don't really get any satisfaction out of people telling me I'm courageous . Look , I was just trying to sleep at night . I was a public servant . I was paid by the taxpayer to do what I did , and so I felt like I needed to do that in ways that contributed to the common good .
Speaker 2Right , that's great .
Speaker 3If you're a public servant and you're not doing that , that's the choice you're making , true , that's the choice you're making , true . Look , I'm happy that people uh don't say I'm a coward , but I'm also not . Uh , I don't derive a lot of satisfaction from people saying you know , what I've done is real courageous . Look , I'm a . I'm trained as a scientist . Scientists are trained to figure out what the truth is right when it comes to nature .
Speaker 3When it comes to nature and the universe , that's our training is to figure out what the truth is and then communicate that to our peers and others , and so that's what I did , and since you brought that up .
Speaker 2I think this is important for the listeners that one of the major tenets of scientific approach is that when you start down a path , your hypothesis needs to be falsifiable .
Speaker 2Listening is it has to be possible throughout your study , to determine that your hypothesis is wrong , that what you may have thought or where you thought you were going turns out something completely different . And so it's been particularly sad for me , starting back with COVID and , of course , long before that . But it was amplified through COVID , the attack on science . Because here we are in this technological age where science is such a critical part as it expands in its capabilities and as that's happening , it's being attacked as though it's something evil , it's something wrong . So the people that we go to when we okay , you know , I've got this hunch , I've got this theory , I believe this , my mom thinks that but we go to the scientist and say what does science say about this ? And that's where we sort out all of the people in the periphery . But this whole COVID thing got to where now the go-to person is the bad guy , if you listen to that approach . So I thank you for pointing out that you're a scientist , because scientists are what takes us forward , that's what moves the needle .
Speaker 3Well , people don't understand that we're wrong a lot . You know they think , oh , you know you're right , you think you're right all the time . No , we don't , we're trained to , you know . Know that we're wrong a lot . And so , you know , there was so much , you know , dissatisfaction with Fauci right during COVID , and you know he would say , look , we don't know , we don't know , we don't have all the answers . But then once you know we do start accumulating the data and stuff does become a consensus within the scientific community , then that tends to be really , those conclusions tend to endure , right , once you have the consensus . And so , like in Iowa with the water , well , we've been studying this for half a century now , right , we've been studying this for half a century now , right ? And so we're pretty sure we're right on what the causes are and what the consequences are and all these other things .
Speaker 2And wouldn't it be fair to say , chris , that also , that some of the biggest breakthroughs and advances in US history have come from scientists being wrong , and that it opens up a whole new pathway that leads to ?
Speaker 3So we're never sure that we're right .
Speaker 4That's the scientific method .
Speaker 3You can never be sure that you're right .
Speaker 3You can only be , you know , sure that you're not wrong . And so that's how we do science , that's how it's been done since the Reformation , and so that's what we do . And I think , people , there's a real , even amongst scientists . I think there's not a real solid understanding amongst many of them about the scientific method . And so you know , know the lingo of science , like it's a theory , right , and so the public will take that word and say , oh well , it's only a theory . Well , you know , in science a theory is pretty . Once you get to the theory stage , it's pretty rock solid , right , right . And so we have politics and politicians that have you know , they take advantage of what science is and what you know , our methods and our processes , and they take advantage of the uncertainty to communicate messages , which is really unfortunate .
Speaker 2Yes , it is , jess , kind of along the same lines as what Chris was talking about . When you are out and about when you are talking to people out in the communities , do you find whether it's stated as clearly as I'm about to state it ? Do you find that a lot of the resistance comes down to profits , that somebody somewhere is making a lot of money and that the changes that need to be made butt up hard against the people making that money ?
Speaker 4Yeah , I mean , I wish that we didn't have money in politics . I mean , citizens United has been a death knell for , for rural activists , for rural people . You know , when I first went to speak with Chris in a couple of places , I was invited and I thought why did they invite me ? He's a chemist and he's speaking about water quality and I'm a literature teacher who ran for office . But then I was like we're both fighting for the same things
Food Production in Corn Belt States
Speaker 4. We see a decline in rural America . We see people walking away , putting their hands up and saying it's not worth it to try it out here , right , and so , like the guy I ran against you know a nice guy , but he took thousands of dollars from a local school privatization place , right , I mean , they don't . They know I'm for public schools and keeping public schools open . Because , you know what ? Give me 20 vouchers . What's it matter ? There's no place to take my kid and there's no private school . Coming to rural America to enroll 46 kids , right , there's no profit in that . So , again , we just keep getting left behind . And so when they poison our water , when they poison our air , they're like , eh , you know , there's seven people out there . What do we care ? Right , we do care and America cares , and Chris can tell you . Chris is a wealth of information .
Speaker 4I interviewed him for my own podcast and he was saying we grow so much corn . We could be growing potatoes and cherries and I was like , oh my God . And another thing Iowa 90% of the food that lands on an Iowan's plate is from a different state . They are importing food into Iowa to eat . Like everybody's head should be exploding from that .
Speaker 4I talked about that and somebody said , well , I don't think Iowa soil is good for carrots . Of course you could grow carrots in Iowa . They can grow everything they need . But the point of the matter is it's big ag that has taken over and taken this huge , massive amount of good black dirt and turned it into gas and into something that we don't need . I've seen corn being put in shirts , in clothing , in makeup . They're putting it everywhere because they're overgrowing it and , by the way , every single person listening to this is subsidizing that and everyone should realize that as well . Right , so it's just this constant churning of it doesn't have to be this way and that's why , if we had a chris in every state who would come forward and say we can grow everything that iowans need to eat . We don't need to do these things and also poison our water . Right right , we can have clean air , clean water and all the food we need .
Speaker 2Yeah , I want to thank you for bringing that up , Jess , because in doing so you reminded me of a question that I have for Chris when he was talking initially , and that ises data and numbers that I think you said 11 million acres , Was that a… ?
Speaker 311,000 square miles of our state ?
Speaker 2Yeah , 11,000 square miles .
Speaker 3Iowa's 56,000 square miles , 11,000 of it is used to produce corn for ethanol Okay .
Speaker 2To produce corn for ethanol ? Okay . What does that do then to the production ? Now I know anybody listening can do math and say well , it reduces it . But in clearer terms than that , what does that do to food production , not only for Iowa but areas outside of Iowa ?
Speaker 3So one reason why Iowa is good and Missouri and other Corn Belt states are good for growing things is because there's adequate moisture and a real favorable climate . And so when we grow things here that are just sort of luxury items as I said , you know , growing corn for ethanol , that's a luxury economic activity Then the production of food items moves to other places , and so , for example , Iowa was once the number one apple producing state
Big Ag, Water, and Rural Economics
Speaker 3. Believe it or not , we used to produce more apples than any other state . We also produce more oats than any other state . We produce more sorghum than any other state , and so we have these other crops . Well , now that we've committed everything to corn and soybeans , some of these other things have moved , especially west . And so we look where do we grow apples now ? Well , we grow them in Washington , eastern Washington . Well , it's a desert and so you got to irrigate it . We look at irrigation in the American Southwest for agriculture . We hear about the Colorado River going dry . Right Right , Los Angeles , Phoenix , Las Vegas are going to run out of river , run out of water . Half of the Colorado River goes to irrigate alfalfa . Well , that alfalfa is then exported to Saudi Arabia and China . Well , alfalfa is a crop we used to grow in Iowa , right without irrigation . And so why don't we grow it here anymore ? Well , it's because we're growing . You know , all our land is being used for corn , to produce ethanol for the renewable fuel stand .
Speaker 3We look at western Kansas , western Nebraska . Well , when I was growing up , that was wheat country . Well , you know , now the world we've seen , with Putin invading Ukraine , they grow a lot of wheat in Ukraine and so you know . So there's been shortages of wheat . Well , we don't grow much wheat here anymore . Why we're growing corn out there and we're irrigating it with the Ogallala aquifer . We're sucking the Ogallala aquifer dry . It takes 6,000 years to naturally replenish it . Why are we doing this ? It's stupid , it's insane and it's only to line the pockets of millionaires and this does not help . This sort of production does not help rural people . Okay , 11,000 square miles in Iowa used to grow corn for ethanol . We have 7,000 jobs here in the ethanol industry , so that's less than one job per square mile . The best farmland on earth . That doesn't sound too good to me .
Speaker 2No , no . This question , chris , pertains to that and I don't know . So I'm truly curious when you look at , say , corn versus alfalfa versus wheat , do different crops require and utilize and need to grow varying degrees of water ?
Speaker 3Yes , and so corn is our most polluting crop , and so corn costs . It costs more to grow corn . The seeds are very expensive , the GMO seeds are expensive . It takes a lot of fertilizer , which is costly . It takes a lot of other chemicals that are costly . It has to be dried , which is takes a lot of energy and is you and is big business just to dry the grain , and so the inputs for the different crops are different . And so , for example , I mentioned oats . We were once the top oak producing state . Well , guess what ? You get much better environmental outcomes with oats than you do with corn , outcomes with oats than you do with corn . We have here in Iowa the largest oat processing facility in the world , in Cedar Rapids , iowa . They don't use any Iowa oats , they bring in all the oats from Canada . Why are we doing this ?
Speaker 2It does not make sense , it's stupid and it's just so the establishment elite can earn money off of corn and ethanol production . Say , a neighbor or somebody that you see at the grocery store and they come back with well , it's maddening , but it's big money and what can you do ? How do you reply to somebody like that ?
Speaker 4So this is like Chris was saying . This might be new information for some people , but if I talk to my neighbors , they know what's going on . They can see I'm sitting in a house that's 125 years old . It used to sit on 400 acres . The people who owned it farmed the 400 acres . It's been parceled out and now it's gone to some guy who lives in Nebraska right who just mails it in .
Speaker 4But everybody around me knows what's going on . They know what big farming has done . They know that their kids cannot come back to rural Missouri because you can't afford the land , because it costs $17,000 , because it's tillable per acre , like . They know this , and so that's where it's a lot of education . When I'm knocking on doors , somebody will come out and talk about the state of our roads , which are absolutely awful . Missourians spend an extra $700 a year than other states on road maintenance because our roads are so terrible , and so they'll talk about the fact that we don't have any shoulders . And I don't know if you guys I know Chris does , and probably you do too If you meet a combine on a highway , you're in trouble , right , there's nowhere to go , but they don't care about that stuff .
Speaker 4So when I talk to my neighbors , I always just try to connect the dots . This is because we've been left behind , this is because they don't care about our community . They're gutting our schools , they're closing our hospitals . They're doing all these things because they don't care . And then , every one of these Republicans , I get texts all the time , emails all the time , about how they stand up for rural folks , and I want to say how , how do you do that ? All you're doing is taking money from these and , by the way , like my husband and I , we have just a tiny little farm , but we had enough to do hogs , to raise hogs . We sell them online , and this is why , because they have taken away all of the infrastructure for small farmers to get their animals to the market . There's nowhere we could sell it , and so when people think .
Speaker 4when they think of farmers , they need to be thinking about what's really going on . These huge ag companies , right ? People like us scraping by . They don't care about us . They haven't cared about us for a long time and I hope that people make that distinction in their head , right ? We're not out here , you know , plowing behind a horse . That's not what's happening . These people have thousands of acres that they use to poison the rest of us .
Speaker 3So , and I should add to that , here we hear politicians all the time talk about China . Right , use all this scare tactics with China , and China is doing this and doing that , and they're coming to get Iowa farmland . Well , guess who owns a bunch of the hogs in both Iowa and Missouri ? Right , smithfield Foods , that's a .
Speaker 3Chinese company . Right , yes , they own a very large percentage of the hogs in both of our states , right . And so these are the people that are polluting the water . These are the people that are polluting the water of rural people , rural small towns Right , so they can export pork to China Right . But then we hear politicians you know , here in Iowa Joni Ernst is a big one you know all these scare tactics about China . Well , china's taken over much of our state . That's why my book is titled the Swine Republic . You know we're a swine republic .
Speaker 3We're not a banana republic . We're a swine republic , right .
Speaker 2Smithfield . I've got a friend this is a number of years ago who I knew worked for Smithfield . I knew he was in some level of management . He didn't work in the plant , I just knew he worked for Smithfield and I knew he was gone a lot . He was gone a lot to China . The guy was in China . He would go for weeks at a time . That was my first introduction to even knowing that Smithfield was owned and controlled by the Chinese . How does this impact rural water ? And I know that August 7th I want to get this in August 7th at 6 pm at Big Grove Brewery in Iowa City , iowa join Jess Piper and Chris Jones for a conversation on clean water and rural decline . And again , that's Wednesday , august 7th , 6 pm at Big Grove Brewery in Iowa City , iowa . So how does the Chinese approach ? Where does that play into rural water ?
Modern Agriculture and Rural Decline
Speaker 3So if you're going to produce hogs for export like that , you're going to have to do it at a massive scale . And so , you know , the farmers raise these hogs on contract to the meat companies . Well , you know , one guy might be raising 5,000 or even 10,000 hogs . In Iowa . That's the average 5,000 per hog farmer , and so the amount of waste that they have to cope with it's colossal , right ? 5,000 hogs produces a waste of 20,000 human beings , and you put one person in charge of managing that waste , well , guess what Bad things are going to happen . Right ? You're going to contaminate wells , you're going to contaminate streams and lakes , and so that's the consequence , right , yes , right , You're going to contaminate wells , you're going to contaminate streams and lakes , and so that's the consequence . Right . And so you know , we're using these states as sort of sacrifice zones , right ? You know ?
Speaker 3Iowa , northern Missouri , other places , in the Corn Belt were like West Virginia , where people with money come in and they extract the wealth from the land that is here , right , and they're extracting the wealth from the people that live here , and so the polluted water is just a symptom , right , the polluted water is just a symptom of what's happened here in these rural areas of the Corn Belt , and so it has to be seen in that light that it's a symptom of consolidation in agriculture and the takeover of agriculture by the big moneyed interests . And the small town America , small town people get left behind in all this . These big ag people . They want to depopulate they do , they want to depopulate these rural areas , so there's nobody there to complain about the dirty water and the polluted rivers and so forth .
Speaker 2I want to say that again . What you just said I think you said it twice and I think it warrants being said again Big ag wants to depopulate rural areas . Absolutely . They want to push people out , which means that people who have enjoyed for generations of families living in a rural setting , living a different kind of life than what you live in urban areas , Look , they would farm cemeteries if they could .
Speaker 3I'm not kidding you on that . They would plant corn in the cemeteries , in the schoolyards , and a town , a small town of a few hundred people , is just in the way . It's in the way of what they want to do . Believe me , that is true .
Speaker 4I can tell you that what Chris is saying is 100% true , because Betsy DeVos , we all know her .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 4She pushes school vouchers and school choice , and a reporter asked her what does school choice look like in a rural area ? Because they don't have choice . And she said well , I think it sounds like a kid listening to great books on headphones while they're working in the fields and then going to the John Deere plant and getting an apprenticeship and then getting tutored at night . So with that statement , she has told you my kids aren't worth educating and there should be no brick and mortar building in this town . Just like Chris said , dig it all up , right , plow it all up and plant corn here , because that's what they want . And the people that are still here guess what they're going to do . They're going to mine the field , right , they want . And the people that are still here , guess what they're going to do . They're going to mine the field , right , but she's , she obviously knows nothing about . You know agriculture , because a 10 year old won't be on a combine , I hope . But just to further the fact that all of this is intertwined , everything is always intertwined , but you know the , the water quality , the air quality and rule decline . You know hospitals going away , schools going away . It's all to do what Chris was saying Get these folks out so we can do what we want to do Right , and a lot of these people are not . You know , we're selling land farmland to to foreign nationals One of the guy who's probably going to win the primary for governor in Missouri .
Speaker 4His name is Mike Kehoe . He's going on this big rampage about , you know , selling farmland to China . Guess what he did in 2013 ? He voted twice to sell land to China . And guess what ? He's driving around the state in this huge bus that has , you know , his name all over it , and the local paper just found out that that bus was paid for by a pork lobbyist who happens to do business in China , so it's just like it'll make your head explode . They flat out lie . They just lie and they don't care about any of us .
Speaker 2That's it . I think for a lot of these issues it comes down to being that simple . They will lie about anything , they will run on issues that they have done the opposite in terms of their own choices and what they've voted for , and it's like they live in two separate realities the one they actually function in and then the one they tell us they function in so they can get elected and get into office . And at that point I think we're seeing more and more of this into office and at that point I think we're seeing more and more of this . You know , it used to be that once somebody was in office , they at least kind of tried to make it look like they were working with both sides right Once somebody's in office . Now , now , it's not that way . There's no shame in saying you know what I'm here to represent this , this truth , not so much . You and people fall for it time and time and time again and time and time again .
Speaker 2You know you mentioned earlier , chris , about people . When they're talking about farmers and farms , that we're not talking about the farmer from 1960 , 1970 , where the family , all you know they , throughout the summer they did things like cut and bale hay , and you know , when I was in high school , when I played football and ran track , we almost always had three or four kids that kind of special arrangement with the coach . If practice was going to run a little long they got to leave because they had to go home and milk . They had to go home and milk . They worked . They were an integral part of that family's business . I don't know any people in my community who are dairymen anymore .
Speaker 3They're gone so dairy has been one of the biggest sectors of agriculture , uh , where there's been consolidation , right . And so we hear uh about , in iowa and minnesota and wisconsin , a lot of dairy in all three states , and there's , you know , dozens of dairies that go out , go out of business every month , right , more than a thousand a year , I think , I hear , in Wisconsin . And so this consolidation , this get big or get out , right , that is began with when Earl Butts was Secretary of Agriculture during the Nixon years , and that was the mantra get bigger , get out . And that's the way it's been . And so now we see , you know agriculture , they'd like to have their neighbor's land more than they'd like to have a neighbor . Right , that's the way it is .
Speaker 3And so we've set up this model of agriculture in the United States , where , especially in the Corn Belt , unless you is really expensive $17,000 in Missouri , $25,000 or more per acre in Iowa is not unheard of , and so we make it impossible for people to break into the business . As a consequence , the average age of the farmer in Iowa is about 60 . And so these guys have a lot of wealth , a lot of generational wealth , as Jess talks about , and young people that would like to do something different and to grow other crops and take care of the land in ways that are more environmentally sound . They can't break in , and so we need policy that changes this framework , that designs an agricultural system that's focused on human nutrition and environmental outcomes . Right now , we have a system that's focused on commerce and that commerce does not benefit the small-time rural person okay , and so we need policy at the federal level to change this framework .
Speaker 2You know , as you were talking about focusing on human nutrition , what came to mind was , I think , the 1970s , somewhere in there , charlton Heston's , soylent Green right , where there was a food shortage and so , to be able to feed everybody , the people who were dying were processed into food , and that was what was called Soylent Green . But that's not really a crazy stretch , is it ?
Speaker 3I mean , when we think Look , we produce a lot of calories in this country , and so right now I've heard a number tossed around Agriculture worldwide produces enough calories for 11 billion people right now , and so there's about 7 or 8 billion on earth . Think about this More calories are in the corn that goes to produce ethanol in the United States than what we put in our body . All right , so we're committing more calories to ethanol than what we put in our body . So we grow plenty of stuff in this country . The problem is , we grow a lot of bad stuff . Look , you know , we have an overweight country , right ? Half the country is overweight , or even a greater percentage of that . Think about it . When I was growing up , were there obese kids in school ? No , there were not . There were no obese kids , and so we're doing something wrong here .
Speaker 3The evidence is out there . It's easily observable . We need to change our agricultural and our food production systems .
Speaker 2I know the rates of juvenile diabetes have been skyrocketing for years now , so I was glad to hear you address a focus on human nutrition , because it seems like there's a focus on everything . But but I was glad to hear you say that we produce or we grow a lot . It's not that there's not the land for , it's not that we couldn't grow enough to feed everyone , but we might get into a situation where we are looking at not everyone's getting the kind of nutrition that they need to get because of the choices we are making about what we are growing on that land and what it's for .
Speaker 3We have food insecurity in this country ? We do . We have food insecurity , especially in rural areas , especially in rural areas . It's criminal that we have food insecurity in this country , considering how much of our country is devoted to agriculture and how much we produce , and so we need a system that's good for people . Right , we need a system that's good for people and that serves a common good . We don't have that .
Speaker 4I think , part of that . Yeah , when Chris talks about food insecurity and I live in this rural area and I worked in schools all my life when you and when all three of us were in school , we had women in general who cooked food real food they cooked chili .
Speaker 4you know , they made soups , they made food . We don't have that anymore . In rural areas we have a woman one woman who was hired to heat up food because they don't have ovens , right , they just heat it up . So they're tearing things out of plastic and putting it on a pan and heating it up and then giving it to the kids . So all of this is you know , it all goes together . If we're feeding kids donuts for breakfast and they do if we're feeding them Pop-Tarts , they do this is , you know , the natural outcome , and it's all related to the fact that we have defunded these schools and we don't care about these kids and feed them donuts three times a day . Who cares ? Right my wife .
Speaker 3When you feed kids that way , you've got to do it in a way that's calorie dense , right , and so I ? I heard Jess say one time , I can't remember when Well , they would make a big pot of chili in the school lunchroom and that's what the kids ate . And if you're going to feed kids out of packages , well , guess what ? It's going to be calorie dense , it's going to be salty , it's going to be sugary , and so the fact that it's had this effect on our bodies should not be a surprise .
Speaker 2And isn't that something too ? Coming back to you as a scientist We've known that for a long time too . Coming back to you as a scientist we've known that for a long time too , have we not ?
Speaker 3Well , yes .
Speaker 2I mean it's mind-blowing to me , all of these things that we not only know , but we've known for decades in some cases and yet nobody addresses it and not only does it not change , it continues to
Rural Environmental Activism and Engagement
Speaker 2get worse .
Speaker 2And that's what the two of you are going to talk about on August 7th in Iowa City , iowa , at the Big Grove Brewery , august 7th , 6 pm . You're going to talk about some of these issues , going to talk about some of these issues and kind of lay out a blueprint , I guess , maybe , for what people can do , because isn't that at the end of the day and this is for both of you you come forward with these stories and the ideas about where it's taking us and the ways that that's not good for us . But ultimately , the people who you are talking to , the people listening to this podcast , the people who are going to vote it takes all of us taking action . Is that a fair statement that if we just do a podcast where the three of us talk to each other about it and nobody listening takes that information and decides to get involved , that we've really just spent some time talking to one another , unless people take action ?
Speaker 4And that's the thing and I think that's why I garner so much unwanted attention is that I'm doing the thing that they refuse to do . Democrats left rural America , and that's a fact . But guess who else did ? The Republicans ? Nobody's knocking my door , calling me or asking for a vote , it's just people are in information silos out here and it's red versus blue it's who's going to win , right ? But when you knock the doors and you talk to the people and you give them sense , everything in their brain is scrambled . And here's the thing A lot of people are in information silos and they get on Facebook and they see a lot of people get their news from Facebook . God on us , right ? So they get on .
Speaker 4Facebook and they're reinforced with their beliefs . But when I knock on their door and I taught their kid or their grandkid and they're forced to face something that causes , you know , a little bit of discomfort , it really makes a difference and that's why we have to run everywhere . We cannot cede grounds to people who don't care about us anymore and we have to talk to our neighbors . Care about us anymore , and we have to talk to our neighbors . And podcasts are fantastic because there are people that are going to listen to it , but I want those people to go out and knock a door or talk to their neighbor while they're outside or doing the things they're doing , because that's how we make change is showing up and friends . I talked to so many people that weren't registered to vote , that are just so apathetic and not children . I mean these were grown adults , right , and so these areathetic and not children .
Speaker 2I mean these were grown adults right , and so these are things we have to say . I post about this often . I know for a fact because I live in a small community . You see things , you see what happens and what does not happen , and a large percentage of the people with the , the make America get great again Again , flags or bumper stickers . They don't vote . In fact , they're not registered to vote . It's mind-blowing . However , if we go back to 2016 , we know how many Democrats did not vote in that election .
Speaker 2And to your point , jess , about that face-to-face , I know that on a national stage , human touch has become , unfortunately , a touchy issue , so to speak , and yet in these rural areas where we grew up , it's still a part of life , right ? You see somebody and you hug them and touch them on the arm and you don't ask first and it's okay , and it's just . It's real life and the difference that can make . When I speak to somebody in my community who has different beliefs or comes from a different stance on politics than I do , when I'm close enough that I can reach out and touch them on the shoulder and look into their eyes from a distance close enough I can see their pupils changing there's something different that happens and it's like this magical power of being able to get somebody to truly listen and to be receptive . In a way they're not online because it's so easy to just click and move on . Click , boom , boom , boom .
Speaker 2So , yes , the point that you're making , we've got to get out and , as you mentioned , that's the hard part . And , as you mentioned , that's the hard part . It's not hard , but it is compared to just sitting down with a mouse in your hand or your phone in your hand . So we need to be able to bump people up and out . And even if you go out for 30 minutes a day and talk to people , can you imagine the impact ? 30 minutes a day , I mean , you can even do it while you're doing something else . You go to the grocery store , you're at the swimming pool , wherever you are . If you will just spend part of that time casually , it's not like you've got to go and say I'm so-and-so and I'm here to talk about . You can just strike up a conversation and then softly work it in and people generally will listen . What are you going to address specifically August 7th ?
Speaker 3to address specifically August 7th . Well , again , my main point here is that the environmental consequences that are happening in rural Iowa and elsewhere are just a symptom right , they're a symptom of what's happened to rural areas . And what has happened ? Well , we've had a takeover by the big moneyed interests of our rural areas and they've turned these states in the Corn Belt into extractive sorts of places , and they're there to extract the wealth . And when they extract the wealth , it's bad for rural people and it's bad for the environment .
Speaker 2So that's my main message on all this and , jess , you essentially mirroring that message and offering your viewpoints on it .
Speaker 4Yeah , just you know , as living the life for all of my life and raising kids here and just realizing you know in the last decade or so how things are really not for us , how things are meant to be against us and the decline in our communities . I mean , my town has 480 people in it . I write a sub stack and so I was going to write about our local school and how it's defunded
Rural Economic Decline and Community Preservation
Speaker 4. So I went back and was looking at the history and it's unbelievable how many people used to live in this town . I have to drive 25 minutes for a gallon of milk . We don't have any place to buy milk . I can buy cigarettes or I can buy beer Sure Gas but I can't buy a gallon of milk . There were two grocery stores here . There was a bank , there was a place to buy clothes , there was a barbershop and now we have a post office and a convenience store and state line liquor right .
Speaker 2I mean that's what they've reduced us to , and so those are the things I'm going to talk about . Fantastic . I just said to my wife , I don don't know , a couple of weeks ago I we had a business that left and I said , well , this is , this is a great look for people driving through another empty storefront . And I said , well , one thing you can count on that that won't leave , and it's the uh , we call it the smoke shop , yes , and then the liquor store . You know those are going to be there no matter what . But to your point , jess , when I was a kid I was born in 66 , but I look at my childhood as the 70s right the town that I now live in , which is where I grew up it was bustling . It had two taxi services . Right Now it's only a town of about 6,000 people , but I think at that time it was closer to eight . But as you know , when you are talking about a small community , the injection of an additional 2,000 people changes things incredibly and you know it was just a neat little place to grow up and live . Now there's a skeletal structure where there used to be this bustling , thriving little community , and it's so sad to see . And one thing I want to tell to the viewers because I think it can show just how much what Chris and Jess have both talked about about big ag taking over .
Speaker 2When I was a kid I used to go quail hunting with my grandparents , right , and my grandfather worked for what was called Missouri Public Service , you might remember , and it was the electrical company , right . He used to be a lineman , so he knew people all throughout several counties . We had an almost unlimited number of places where we could go hunt quail . When I got back from the military I kind of dropped out of hunting , I guess during my military years . But when I came back people would ask me you still hunt ? And my answer would always be the same when All of the places that I used to go hunt that was privately owned . That people would say , sure , just be sure you close the gate . It was gone , it was owned by . And I would say , sure just be sure you close the gate .
Speaker 4It was gone .
Speaker 2It was owned by . And I'd say they'd say , well , this outfit owns this place , we're used to hunting . I'd say , okay , well , I'll check with so-and-so . Well , it owns them too , I'll check that it owns all . So , as Chris mentioned earlier , they come in and gobble up as much land as they can buy and the price is $17,000 an acre . In high school I know places where I could have bought all the land I wanted for $400 or $500 an acre right and scrub ground . They'd almost give it away so they didn't have to pay property taxes on it anymore . And of course , all that is now leased out to people from out of state who come in to hunt . So the idea of oh yeah , that's Nick's uncle , they own that . They'll let you mushroom hunt there . Those days are gone .
Speaker 3So in the 80s you could have bought a farm for $17,000 . Yes , I'm not kidding you on that , yes , and in Iowa it was $200 and some dollars an acre . As far as the quail , we don't have any quail left in Iowa because we've farmed fence row to fence row and so all these marginal lands that were a habitat for quail and pheasants are gone . Now , right Now we have deer hunting . Of course , deer like to eat corn and soybeans , and so we have a lot of deer around that people can shoot . But as far as the bird hunting , the quail , they're gone .
Speaker 3So I think in this context so I just did a little looking around here before I came on here In Iowa we have 1,022 cities , 1,022 communities . Only 42 of those have a population greater than 10,000 . 982 out of 1,022 , less than 10,000 people . And so do we want everybody in the state living in these little islands , these little urban islands ? I don't think we do .
Speaker 3We want a prosperous rural area , and so often we look at prosperity in terms of the farmer , right , so there's only 85,000 farmers in Iowa , but half of our state is living in a town of less than 10,000 people , and so we have to divorce this idea of rural is the same as farmer . Those things are not the same thing . This is something that Democrats just do not get , and so we need to come in and we need to talk to rural people in the context of what's good for everybody , what's good for the town , what's good for the common good , not what's good for you , what's good for the common good here , what's good for the town , and I think that's what Democrats need to do if they're going to make inroads into these rural areas .
Speaker 2And is it safe to say that people who live in those rural communities are really the last bastion between a takeover , a complete takeover , and being able to maintain rural communities ?
Speaker 3Do we want these corporate titans having control over , you know , 90% of the land in a state ? I don't want that . I think that's dumb , you know to hand over 90% of a state's area to a few billionaires . That's dumb Right . We don't want that . And so we need to bring prosperity to these rural areas .
Speaker 2Let's talk about on a human level , on just the experience of life . Jess , you grew up in a rural setting . You grew up in a rural setting . What does it mean to your family if , through some change of events , as the result of big ag , that your family has to pick up and move to the city , as we say here in the sticks , If you have to move to a larger urban area with a neighbor on either side 15 feet from your house this way and 15 , 20 feet that way ? What does that mean for your quality of life , based on what you've known , what you've enjoyed , and psychologically , how would that impact you ?
Speaker 4I don't know what it's like to live like that and I like the way I live right now . And could I do it ? Of course I could . I mean , I guess getting a gallon of milk would be a lot easier and my daughter would probably have a better funded school . But this is the point to this is that when people say and I know you didn't say it , but people will often tell me , just move . You know , just move . It's my state too . I'm not going anywhere . This is my state too , right . Right .
Speaker 4And I have a right to live where I want to live . Like all of us do , I've chosen the life that I've always lived . I mean , my house costs $30,000 . My house and my property costs $30,000 . As teachers , I could afford to live here . I could afford . I now am mortgage free . Right , the house across the highway went for 20,000 . Five beds , one bath . Right , we can afford to live here .
Speaker 4And what Chris said is so important . I wrote about this . Rural people are not farmers . There's no , you don't need to like people misconstrue that . Rural people in general are poor folks who live in communities that they can afford to live in . Right , and so it's . When we really come down to it , it is class warfare . It's the billionaires against the poor folks who are still in this place . And so , talking to my neighbors , they know that when Chris talks to people out in his area , we all know what we're up against , because you know this , this is the way we've always lived and we see who is coming in and buying up the land and the fact that our kids I mean my kids could afford to live out here , but there's no jobs here , so that makes it difficult , right , so they live in Kansas City , where you know it's cost 22 or you know $200,000 to buy something that's a fixer-upper . We have a lot of problems in the country . They're mirrored in rural areas just like anywhere else .
Speaker 2Right , and I think you would both agree that if we lose that element of the rural people , if we lose that , if we lose that , we lose an important thread in the fabric of our country .
Speaker 2Right , because what is a country if it's not the collage of all of the different lifestyles and people who , right , we've got the big city life life , and that's an important thing . There are a lot of important things that happen in big cities and we need them . And those people bring something to the table , not just in terms of their job and what they do , but just their personalities , and you can tell a big city person from a rural person . Right , we need all of us goes in a direction that you can't count on as being a good direction , because there's such a grassroots element to rural life and rural people . So , one last time before we go join Jess Piper and Chris Jones for a conversation on clean water and rural decline Wednesday , august 7th , 6 pm at Big Grove Brewery in Iowa City , iowa . Jess , chris , either of you want to say one last thing before we go .
Speaker 3Well , I just want to say I'm really happy and proud to be associated with somebody like Jess Piper , who clearly is a leader here , knows way more about rural life in the Midwest than I do , and I think she's somebody to listen to and that can inform people both in Missouri and in Iowa , and so I'm really happy to do this event with her and I hope people come and I hope we can help people learn about a few things .
Speaker 4And I'm really excited about it . I was happy the first time I got to go , even though I was like why are they including me ? This is fantastic , though , and thank you for hosting us and for telling other people about the event .
Speaker 2Oh , you're so welcome . And , jess , you've said that a couple of times now . You said you know . I thought , well , why are they including me ? I think the really important and nice thing about you being there is , let's face it , most people aren't scientists . Right , I mean , a scientist is so critical in the decisions that are being made Because , again , they're the people we go to when we want to sort out the different opinions and beliefs . Right , they're the people who are going to have the answer that we should probably be listening to , but yet , not everybody's a scientist , and so to have somebody there who's not a scientist , you know , I think if it were two scientists , I think maybe people would feel differently about the event . I think if there were no scientists , people would feel differently about the event . The two of you are kind of like the dynamic duo . You balance things out , and I think that will make for a great event .
Speaker 3So I might interject here . Most people are not trained scientists .
Speaker 2Most people are scientists Most people are scientists .
Speaker 3They have an instinctive . Our scientists have an instinctive uh sort of grasp of the scientific method . Now in our society we've tried , you know , in the scientific community is guilty of this . We've made science off limits to , uh , general audiences , and so that's one thing we will definitely be doing there august 7th , is making the science accessible to the general audience .
Speaker 2Super Well , it's been my honor to have both of you and to get to meet both of you officially , or at least as officially as you can . Digitally , right , but we're at least face-to-face in real time and it has been a pleasure . So one last time join Jess Piper and Chris Jones for a conversation on clean water and rural decline . Wednesday , august 7th , 6 pm at Big Grove Brewery I don't know why I have such a hard time saying Big Grove Brewery in Iowa City , iowa . I'd like to have you both back in the future sometime to maybe expand on some of the issues that we talked about .
Speaker 2I apologize for the technical issues but , I , assure you I will try to do a little magic and piece everything together as smoothly as we can , and then I will send you the link so you can share with your people . All right , thank you , and I will see you again soon . Bye-bye , we'll see you next time .
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