Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Jack Hopkins Show podcast, where stories about the power of focus and resilience are revealed by the people who live those stories. And now the host of the Jack Hopkins Show podcast, Jack Hopkins, Hello and welcome to the Jack Hopkins Show podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:22

I'm your host, jack Hopkins. Welcome to the Jack Hopkins Show podcast. I'm your host, jack Hopkins. Today, I have the privilege of introducing you to a man who exemplifies what it means to be a lasting and enduring friend. Sean Lake is one of those people that, if you could go back to the beginning of your childhood and you could take the knowledge that you have now about what matters in life in terms of friendships and you could hand-select your friends, sean Lake is one of those guys that you would want to pick most definitely. Sean Lake is with me today.

Speaker 2: 1:09

However, not necessarily to talk about Sean Lake. He's here to talk about his lifelong friend, glenn Doherty, otherwise known as Bubz, otherwise known as Bubs. Glenn was one of the men killed in the Benghazi attack. He was a former Navy SEAL who fought valiantly, as you would expect out of someone of that caliber, and he unfortunately lost his life there. And he unfortunately lost his life there. But his name, his memory, will not be something that's easily forgotten by those who knew him, nor will it be a name that just the general public will ever forget, because Sean has put basically his life into creating this product in memory of his friend, his lifelong buddy, glenn Doherty. So, rather than go through and list all of the things about Sean Lake, I think you'll find that he reveals all of the things that are useful to know about him, as he's telling the story about his friendship with Bubz Glendorty. And with that, just after I tell you how you find out about his product, you just go to BubzNaturalscom, bubznaturalscom, bubsnaturalscom, and that is where you'll find the company and the product that he put his heart into to develop in memory of Glenn Doherty.

Speaker 2: 3:18

And with that, let's get right into this really revealing and heart-wrenching episode of the Jack Hopkins Show podcast with Sean Lake. Welcome, sean Lake. Thank you for having me. You've got a story that I know a little bit about at this point, that I'm about to learn a whole lot more about, and I can tell listeners and viewers that just the little bit of his story that I know at this moment is fascinating. It is moving, it's informative, it's educational. It's informative, it's educational, and you're going to come away from this with your eyes open wider Because of the number of wow and holy shit moments that you're going to have during this episode. Sean, let's just start at the beginning. Tell me about your story, about your connection to the man that you'll be talking about much of the time, and where it went from there.

Speaker 3: 4:39

Thank you for having me on and having the experience to be here. Second, thank you for leading in with a swear, because now I know I don't have to character myself.

Speaker 2: 4:51

Perfect.

Speaker 3: 4:53

You opened the doors, man, that's on you. You bet I did so. I was born and raised in a little suburb in Massachusetts. So I was born in Gloucester, Massachusetts. If you ever saw the movie the Perfect Storm Storm or remember the book from Sebastian.

Speaker 2: 5:07

Oh yeah younger.

Speaker 3: 5:09

That was my old hometown, a little fishing town. Parents divorced. I was like seven, eight years old. I ended up moving to Winchester, massachusetts, where it was really my formative years, like fourth grade on. It's where you learn all your bad habits and all your best buddies and the people that are going to be in your life, you know, ideally for the rest of your life. And kind of central on that in this core group of friends was this guy, glenn Doherty.

Speaker 3: 5:33

So I get into high school and I am like your classic misfit skateboarder. I wanted to learn how to ski, snowboard, do like individual sports. I sucked at team sports. I think it was a byproduct of, like you know, parents divorcing and just not knowing where I fit into a team dynamic, um, and I just loved anything I could do on my own and be expressive that way and it was really stuff like you know, music, culture, punk rock, skateboarding, counterculture, like going against the grain, and I didn't know how to fit in, want to fit in. I think there was a fair bit of that dynamic going on right and some of the guys I hung out with were kind of like it was like hanging out with the coolest guys of the misfit crowd. Yeah, and glenn was, you know, it was right in the thick of that whole scene. So, while we all did our part, playing sports and doing the things, we all just saw the world a little bit differently, and maybe none more so than Glenn and I. Glenn was a year older than me.

Speaker 3: 6:37

Graduates high school, takes off to college. He goes to Embry-Riddle because he wants to be an airline pilot. The one guy in the entire school of like 400 people graduating is like I want to become an airline pilot. I go ahead and graduate from college and I don't know where the hell I'm going. So I just go to New Mexico to go to school at New Mexico State University from Massachusetts. Like you couldn't be more of an opposite area Somewhere warm right.

Speaker 3: 7:01

Fast forward a year and like I'm barely doing okay in school, all I want to do is go snowboard, like that was my passion. So I go to school in New Mexico and every weekend I'm driving out to the mountains to go and snowboard. And my mom next summer she's like you're getting like a 2.6 grade point average. We're wasting our time here and I sit down with Glenn and my older brother guy and we hatched this plan to move to the mountains of Utah. We're going to move to Snowbird Utah. I'd never been to Utah in my life, but we're going to go become professional athletes. That's the new dream. This is like 18-year-old, 19-year-old Sean hatching this plan with my mom. And then I had to call my dad and tell him and my dad's looking at me like well, the world needs ditch diggers too. And that's it. Man, glenn and I rocket ship out to Utah. And four years later, um, because I loved it so much and I guess I put in the work and a whole lot of luck um, I got sponsored for snowboarding and I was 24 years old and I'm looking at the world and I'm getting paid to ride a snowboard. I'm like this is the coolest thing ever. Now, keep in mind, jack, I'm getting paid like a thousand bucks a month, right Thinking I'm the richest guy in the world. We're not talking mortgage payments here.

Speaker 3: 8:21

Sure, and Glenn, you knowenn had this super adventurous life, like he would take off in the summers and go tour with the grateful dead. He worked as a ranch hand one summer and when I say toured with the grateful dead, I don't mean like with the band, I mean like out in the parking lot selling peanut butter sandwiches to pay for his next ticket to the next show and gas, um, he was a river guide. He toured people down the river out of Moab, utah, and then in the winter we came together and rode powder and chased our dream. And all of our buddies in that time graduated college, started their professional careers, some of them got married, and then you got Glenn and Sean who were turning 25 and were ski bumming. So I had made it. I had achieved the dream that I wanted to and I was kind of on this building path of becoming a pro snowboarder and seeing where that could take me.

Speaker 3: 9:12

And Glenn and I sat down one day and we're like all right, man, what do we do here? Because we were looking at all the ski bums that were in their 30s, waiting tables, washing dishes, and we're like that's not for us, like this has an end point. And glenn said well, you know, I think I'm going to join the navy and challenge myself next in life. I'm going to join the navy and I want to become a navy seal. I said, well, shit, like that charlie sheen movie, because this is the mid-90s man. Like we had to rent a VHS movie to watch Charlie Sheen driving the Jeep over the bridge and jumping in. That's what we knew.

Speaker 3: 9:51

And Glenn was like, yeah, last summer, when I went to Costa Rica, I met these Navy SEALs that were off-duty and they kind of told me I had what it takes and I want to see what I'm made of. That was Glenn. So this larger than life personality who drops out of college and chases the dream of being a skier. He's like next dream, I'm gonna be a navy seal. All right, like shit, man, I'll drive you to the recruiter. I drive him down to the navy recruiter. Next thing, you know, he signs his contract.

Speaker 2: 10:18

He's off to basic training so you literally took him to the navy recruiter that was. You were with him on that leg of the journey.

Speaker 3: 10:25

In Sandy, utah, down 9,400 south, is a little Naval recruiter. I think they're still there and I drove him right down to the front door. The guy looked at me. He's like you coming in, son, long shaggy hair, and I'm like, nope, yeah, I'll be out here in the parking lot just keeping the car warm. And yeah, I'll be out here in the parking lot just keeping the car warm. And you know, a year later I'm going to Glenn's Bud's graduation and I'm rolling into the grinder down in Coronado like Motley Crue, I think. I just dyed my hair purple and had to shave it so that I didn't look like a total misfit.

Speaker 3: 10:58

You know, like all the punk rock things you do when you're living that lifestyle, and there's Glenn up on stage getting that honor and it was the first time it really sunk in like the achievement that he had done and, like you know, we were all so proud of him, like all of his ski bum buddies and high school buddies. And then he takes off and serves 10 years at SEAL Team 3. So he's stationed in Coronado. He has a whole set of life adventures and I went back to Utah and I knocked out my college degree. So I used my snowboard money to pay for school because I knew there was an end point. You can't snowboard forever and I wasn't the best snowboarder. I was willing to put in the hard work, but I wasn't the most talented guy like a Travis Rice or a Sean White or these household names, and I saw them coming up in the sport. So I was like, yeah, I better get my degree and get out of here my job.

Speaker 2: 11:51

To be fair, to get anybody sponsoring you professionally, you've got to be pretty tight. I'm guessing you were a hell of a snowboarder. Just maybe didn't go that one step up, but you were close right.

Speaker 3: 12:07

I'll take that.

Speaker 3: 12:08

I'll take that. I appreciate that and it was a hell of a lifestyle. I mean, I got to fly to Europe, I got to go to Alaska. Like I got to have these life adventures Sure, if I graduated college at 21, I wasn't doing those things and to really challenge myself in a different format than what Glenn was challenging himself, like adrenaline, sport, life or death situations, or at least highly consequential ones, like man, that's what life was made of for me.

Speaker 3: 12:36

And so I graduate from college. I called all my sponsors. I'm like, hey, man, I'm out. I think I'm going to join the State Department and go work in civil service. That's where I thought my career was going to take me. I got a degree in political science and I'm like, cool, I'm going down this path.

Speaker 3: 12:52

Well, all best laid plans can take a hard left hand turn and I end up getting a phone call from some folks that worked at Burton Snowboards and they asked me to interview for a job and I did, and I ended up getting a job that offered a gob of money compared to what I had been making, to move to Encinitas, california, san Diego, near my best buddy, glenn, and become the team manager of a young kid named Sean White and I was like, oh really.

Speaker 3: 13:21

And I talked to a couple of friends, advisors and they were just like you got to take this job, man, your snowboarding is what you do.

Speaker 3: 13:28

And that launched me on a totally different career path into the kind of action sports, youth sports marketing space and I ended up moving down to Encinitas 21 years ago and I really grew roots in this community and just fell in love with you know, surfing, mountain biking, just outdoor lifestyle that I was already a part of from snowboarding and my best buddies right down the street.

Speaker 3: 13:52

So now all Glenn's SEAL buddies and my snowboard buddies and all the action sports guys we're all getting together on weekends for barbecues, everyone's hanging out together, and it was this big mashup of you know, these various groups of friends, and it's funny because, like anyone in the outdoor space is going to look at a navy seal and just have this level of massive respect. I was surprised at the level of interest and respect that the navy seals had for a pro snowboarder or a pro surfer or someone who you had these high risk sport activities that had heavy consequence to them. So it was a really neat relationship developed and I got to hang out with my boy. Like you know, glenn was back in the mix.

Speaker 2: 14:33

Right, I was going to say because there's, you're talking about the overlap, I mean, on so many levels you guys were on really the same level of intensity. I mean you, you lived life hard, you didn't half-ass things. Once you went after it you went after it. And so, yeah, you talk about the level of respect they had for you as a professional athlete. You know there are so many professional or former professional athletes that will come through VUDS. You know they've hit that point. They've said, ok, this is the ultimate challenge, I want to do that. So, yeah, it's kind of a match made in heaven, I would assume as a friendship.

Speaker 3: 15:19

Yeah, it's funny. At the time I don't think I had the level of kind of retrospect to look at it the way I do now. In the time we're just kind of going oh, this is kind of funny, but cool, we're not really questioning, we're just going with it because these are our boys. I look back at it now and I'm like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But you know, we graduated into our 30s Now Glenn's, you know, retiring from the Navy at 35, turning 36, 37, 36.

Speaker 3: 15:46

And I'm now the director of marketing at DC Shoes. It's a big skateboard shoe company that has a snowboard division, a surf division, motocross, like all the different sports, and I'm kind of running over a lot of those divisions. And Glenn gets a divorce, gets out of the Navy, gets a divorce. A year later I get a divorce Next thing. You know, we're roommates. We're two guys turning 40, living together in Encinitas, and Glenn, for his part, he started a really dangerous kind of I wouldn't call it a career shift.

Speaker 3: 16:19

It was more like it was a bridge. He was bridging a gap between being active duty, navy, seal, this highly specialized skill set, and what's next. And I know that you cover this topic a lot. That gap and that leap into what's next can be absolutely cataclysmic for some individuals. It can be the easiest thing for some, but what I have found is that more often than not, there's a struggle in the transition into civilian life and into that what's next. Glenn struggled with that. I mean, if he was here right now, sitting next to me, he'd be like yeah, man, I spent years in limbo.

Speaker 3: 16:59

Well, he filled that time by making a gob of cash contracting directly for the Central Intelligence Agency. So he got into military contracting work and that's, you know, it's a layup. If you're a soldier making $75,000 a year, active duty, us Navy as a SEAL and you can go and make $150,000, $200,000 a year by contracting dude, that's kryptonite. How can you say no to that? Like it's, you're going to be sucked right into it and it's hard to get out of it, because where else are you going to go, where you're going to make that kind of money? So he started contracting and it took him all over the world. Like he would go to Beirut, he'd go to Iraq all the time, cause was hot back then He'd be in Mexico City and ultimately, in the fall of 2012, he went on what was supposed to be, ironically, his last deployment, because he had finally made the decision of what to do next in life. He made a decision to go back to Utah, the University of Utah, for a physician's assistance program. There he was putting in his applications and his last appointment was to Tripoli in Libya.

Speaker 3: 18:12

It was right after, in the fall of 2012, when we had reopened diplomatic relations after the fall of Gaddafi and I was Glenn's roommate. But beyond that, during that time, glenn and I had also laid our wills out to each other. We had laid out our power of attorney, next of kin, all that kind of paperwork-y stuff. And I remember sitting down with him laughing like, all right, man, well, when I die, you can inherit all my crap, you get all my debt and all my junk. And he said, oh yeah, well, you get all mine. And it was a joke because we were going to live forever. Um, but I was glenn's listed next of kin on his paperwork and I think you know where this is going. Um, glenn never came home from libya.

Speaker 3: 18:55

Uh, glenn was one of the four americans killed in benghazi, libya.

Speaker 3: 19:00

He flew from tripoli down to the terror attacks in Benghazi on the State Department annex that killed our ambassador, chris Stevens, an intelligence IT officer named Sean Smith, another Navy SEAL named Tyrone Woods and Glenn and Ty and Glenn were killed on the rooftop in the CIA annex in Benghazi, were killed on the rooftop in the CIA annex in Benghazi. And I mean anyone who's watched the movie 13 Hours or remembers Hillary Clinton getting in a whole shitload of trouble because of how that entire operation was managed. That was my roommate and my best friend and my life took a radically different turn If it was a different turn to think I was going to graduate college and go to work at the State Department and then go into work at Burton Snowboards. It took another hard turn when Glenn died and I got that phone call to return home and the two black SUVs were parked in front of my house with a bunch of CIA operatives standing outside of it to share the news with me as his listed next of kin that my brother from another mother had died.

Speaker 2: 20:13

So yeah, and let's talk about something for a moment, sean, because I don't want people to overlook this thing that could easily be overlooked, and that is you don't sit down and make somebody your next of kin or the person who's in charge of your affairs. You don't do that with just anyone. In fact, for most people it's only with a spouse or a family member. So it's kind of exceedingly rare in the world today for two people to be so close and brothers as tightly as you were that they say you know what, you're my guy and yeah, I'll be your guy. So this was not like being notified of the death of somebody that you went to high school with but you only had a couple of classes with throughout the day. This is somebody who, for all intents and purposes, was like a brother.

Speaker 3: 21:30

Yeah, and we refer to that. We always joke about it, right, because I was there when Glenn got married. Glenn was there when I got married, glenn was right there in the mix of it. When I met Heather my wife today was just like you know, like he was in that in like we're. We were so intertwined in our lives from 12 years old on, yeah, and it was like hey, seeing the world a similar way, having a similar belief system, value system, um, fucking with each other all the time, you know, like the way brothers do and friends do, and I think it's exceedingly rare to have that person in your life. Um, I think it's special and I encourage anyone out there to like really take stock in who you keep in your phone and around you and ask yourself who would truly be there for you, right, who would you be willing to be there for? Which is a harder question to ask, like it's all easy to be like, who would be there for me? Who do you want to be there for?

Speaker 3: 22:27

And the thing about glenn is that glenn would be there for fucking hundreds of people. He was that authentic of a human and that good of a friend. I mean, you know this because when you and I first got connected, you have a, we have a mutual acquaintance and friend, v diamond, and he raised his hand right away and was like fuck yeah, glenn, I worked with glenn. And he doesn't say like, oh yeah, I worked with that guy, right, he says it like that guy was my best friend, he was a stand-up guy, like he was funny as hell, he was a, b, c, d, all the great things, right, man, we're all lucky to have those people in our lives and absolutely, and the diamond is himself one of those people.

Speaker 3: 23:13

Yeah, he's, he's, he's just, he's a good guy, and good guys tend to find good guys yeah, I, I totally agree with you and and, and you know what, like, when I look back at it, I'm like man, I'm so lucky. It's funny. I talked to one of glenn's um, you know his former teammates who's a friend of mine, who, like we all became friends when glenn was serving guy named mike ritland and oh yeah, the dog, yeah, yeah, famous dog trainer now and like, yeah, we were talking about it, we're just talking about how lucky we are having. He's like man, he's like how lucky are you? He's like glenn was friends to hundreds of people but you, you get to say you were his best friend and I'm like, yeah, we all do, like we all get to share that right.

Speaker 3: 23:55

And but yeah, you know, like we left our wills to each other, our states to to manage each other's shit, the power of attorney, the next of kin. You're absolutely right. It is extremely rare that he would not choose a family member and he had his reasons and I had mine. I mean, like you know, it wasn't like it was a burden, it was an honor and it was like, hey, of course, of course, this is what we're going to do. There was no, it was barely even a discussion. It was like. This is expected. It's in the code.

Speaker 2: 24:26

Can you talk for just a minute and maybe there's something you want to cover later. I lost a friend on that level. We had that kind of closeness when he died. I've lost other friends. You know people that I've been pretty close with, have known a long time. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:51

It was sad when I lost those other people, but when my friend Kevin died it was like somebody just ripped my insides out. You mentioned you've been through a divorce. I've been through a divorce. It was worse than my divorce by far. Is that kind of how you experienced it?

Speaker 3: 25:17

Yeah, number one, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear about Kevin and I'm sorry that anyone has to go through that. If anything, though, it also pulls me closer to you because I know some of what you've experienced. I think if there's a message behind that or there's something, a key takeaway, it's also what did you do with it? How did you channel it? You got some people.

Speaker 3: 25:41

When Glenn died, they dove into a bottle. I had people drunk on my couch for a couple of weeks. I had people that didn't leave my house for a couple of months, that just needed to be around the energy of what his life had meant to them, and they had a hard time transitioning. You know, I had a lot of work to do, quite literally as the manager of the estate and kind of executive role, and I had something positive to pour my energy into in a fight to go after like a job. I just had a job to do. Experiences for me was to one, protect glenn's legacy, to fill my time with tasks that felt meaningful and purposeful.

Speaker 3: 26:34

Um, glenn's sister, kate, kind of like she sparked this amazing idea. Like, literally less than a week after glenn died, we were all sitting in kate's basement in marblehead, massachusetts and we're talking, we just had this big funeral and memorial for Glenn. It was on a national stage, giant procession. And we're sitting in Kate's basement and she says you know God, we got to keep Glenn's memory alive, we got to keep his he's got to have like a seat at the table. And she started the idea for the Glenn Doherty Memorial Foundation and we were all very aware that Glenn's transition to civilian life was something that he struggled with. So how can we help others not have that same struggle? How can we pay it forward? That was Glenn man. He wanted to pay it forward. We'll start a foundation. We'll do scholarships. We'll help out Glenn's military brothers, special operators, and we'll start a foundation. We'll do scholarships, we'll help out Glenn's military brothers, you know special operators, and we'll offer scholarships.

Speaker 3: 27:29

Help fill gaps in the GI bill. Like Glenn was scared of money. Like Glenn was scared, he didn't have enough money. He wanted to go to school but he knew that he had to pay a bunch of money to go back to school. Gi bill wouldn't cover everything. How do you fill those gaps? So there was purpose. Gi Bill wouldn't cover everything. How do you fill those gaps? So there was purpose. And then I had the other purposes that were not small, like how do you manage an estate, how do you give money to Glenn's family members and carve out his earnings? Because someone doesn't just walk up to you and be like here's Glenn's savings account, here's his investment account, here it is go. It takes years to unwind a mortgage, it takes years to unwind bank statements and, in Glenn's case, his employers at the Central Intelligence Agency. They had some real problems paying a death benefit for a guy who laid down his life saving his country.

Speaker 2: 28:27

And that's what I'd like to talk about. For many reasons, but just for the most basic reason that shouldn't be that way when you think about it and you think about somebody who is serving their country, you think it ought to be a pretty straightforward deal. Okay, here's the death benefit.

Speaker 3: 28:54

You died serving your country I knew Glenn had a life insurance policy because when Glenn deployed overseas and he worked for the CIA, I had to act as a witness for him a few times, which brought me endless joy, knowing that I was going to get interviewed as a character reference for a CIA operative. This former washed up snowboarder I'd be like I don't know, man, I might go surfing today. I don't know if I got time for that.

Speaker 3: 29:29

it would drive me crazy and and I acted as that. So you know, I I I knew about that role, but I also knew glenn had a life insurance policy. He was mandated by the cia to have a specific life insurance policy in order to be allowed to leave country and go overseas. This thing had to be bound and in place. So he had a specific life insurance policy that would start the day he left country and expire the day after he got home from being overseas, and it was a very specific policy.

Speaker 3: 30:00

And we're talking about hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of operatives that are 1099 contractors that work for the CIA and endless amounts more that work for Department of State, department of Labor, like you pick it. We have US interests all over the world. And it might be an electrician, it might be a plumber, it might be an IT officer, it could be any one of a number of different roles. Glenn was in security. So Glenn was contracting, working directly for the GRS branch of the Central Intelligence Agency, and he was overseas all the time helping make sure that those really, really smart case officers in the CIA didn't get shot, kidnapped, blown up. He always used to love telling me stories about how sometimes his defensive role included a little bit of offense, and I'd be like give me an example, glenn give me an example.

Speaker 3: 30:50

Tell me a story Unclassified. He's like, yeah, okay, and he would lie Cause they're all classified. But he'd be like, all right, so there's one guy I take a CIA agent and I'm in Libya. So this one guy, I take a CIA agent and I'm in Libya oh no, no, I'm sorry, he was in Iraq and he's like I literally take a US operative and this guy's got $50,000 in cash to drop off on someone's couch and he's like I got to walk into this house super tight quarters, sweep it and all that stuff. This guy's got a gun, I've got a gun.

Speaker 3: 31:20

And this guy's there to give money and receive information like pretty standard stuff you'd imagine out of the movie. He's like we're in there head on a swivel, head on a swivel, and these guys do their little exchange of information, talking farce here. Whatever they do leaves the money we're talking 50 grand, like you know boom. Leaves it for the family. They leave. It's like we're 10 minute drive away, like getting the fuck out of there, and the case officer's like, um, I forgot my. What the fuck are you kidding me? And like you can't leave a us firearm with foreign terrorists or informants or whatever that

Speaker 3: 32:01

he's gonna drive all the way back down there, knock on the door and be like, excuse me, can I get that? Ar? Thanks, so he'd have like endless stories. That's one little dime, um. But yeah, man, when glenn died, you know I I had to, you know, call his former employers.

Speaker 3: 32:24

Uh, I had glenn's laptop. They had returned it with his personal effects after benghazi and know like I find his Rutherford life insurance policy. So then I see a contact name and a number and I start calling them and this is all, like you know, late 2012, like it took a couple of months to like unpack this and figure this out. I'm going out, I'm like hey, so like, what's the process for applying for the death benefit? If that's an application, like I don't know, I've never had someone die on me before um in service of their country and they inform me oh well, we, we won't be paying a death benefit for glenn. We're sorry, but you know we it's clearly written in the bylaws glenn was not eligible. I like the fuck, he wasn't eligible. He signed and paid for, paid thousands of dollars for a life insurance policy. What do you mean? You're not going to pay it. And they said, well, he doesn't qualify.

Speaker 3: 33:23

So around the same time I had been approached by a law firm called K&L Gates and, pro bono, they raised their hand and they didn't know what I was going through. They just said, hey, this is a national tragedy. We want to be there to help you. You want some help managing the estate? This is going to be a really big deal. We'd just like to raise our hands. It was a very patriotic, appropriate, nice gesture that didn't have to be done and I'm grateful.

Speaker 3: 33:51

You know, 11 and a half years later, that that relationship was born because I brought them this Rutherford thing. I said, guys, like I don't know what's going on here, but like I, you know, I'm getting stonewalled by this life insurance company. So we made the decision. You know it took over a year to sue them in federal court and sue Glenn's employers and all of a sudden I have my name on a lawsuit that all resulted in suing the federal government and Rutherford Insurance because Glenn did not qualify for a death benefit due to an archaic piece of legislation called the Defense Base Act.

Speaker 3: 34:30

I encourage anyone to Google piece of legislation called the Defense Base Act. I encourage anyone to Google it and look up the Defense Base Act and in it is a little bylaw that says any independent contractor working under employment of the United States of America who is not married with dependents will be denied a death benefit, will not be paid a death benefit. So hold on a second. You're telling me that a US citizen died serving his country, but he wasn't married with kids. He doesn't get paid a death benefit.

Speaker 2: 35:05

And a death benefit, by the way, that he was required to have as part of his employment. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 35:12

So look at 11 and a half years later, it makes my blood boil. But that's what I encountered. Now I'm mad, I'm grieving, I'm task-minded and I've got a project to, I've got a goal to accomplish Get this death benefit paid to Glenn's family, get this thing paid out. And it's funny because, like Glenn's family and I, we had this funny way of carving up Glenn's estate and it's still in play to this day where, when Glenn died, I had very specific instructions before he died, like when we did the whole will thing. He was like hey, man, you take all my money and you throw parties with every last dime. I don't want anyone getting anything other than the party fund.

Speaker 3: 36:05

And we had a name for it. We called it this, we called it the cult of recreationalism Beautiful. And he's like take our friends on heli ski trips, take him to tavarua, go surfing. Like, do all the big adventures, go buy a mountain bike, like, do all the rad things. Right.

Speaker 3: 36:23

And after glenn died like that, by the way, that was my rule for him too, it was a mutual rule. I was like all right, man, you've got a brother and a sister and mother. We're going to do this different. He died and I was like we're going to divide by four. I'm going to take everything that's coming in and it's going to go to Glenn's mom, glenn's sister, glenn's brother, and I'm going to save a little bank account called the Cult of Recreationalism and it is only going to be drawn upon for select epic parties to commemorate and celebrate Glenn's life. And so every couple of years to this day, our high school buddies will get together and go to a New England Patriots game. We've flown to San Diego and done it. We've gone to Vegas, we've gone to Tennessee, and it's a chance to rally. The boys get together and just celebrate and I love it because I'm like I've got a financial advisor.

Speaker 3: 37:16

I'm like your only job is to keep this thing alive so I can keep pulling from it. But you know, like the biggest gesture there was, like show Glenn's mom that her son's sacrifice was worth something Pay her that money.

Speaker 3: 37:34

Like write that check to the family and give them closure, Because can you imagine what that would feel like? Yeah, Glenn was my brother. I was pissed off and angry. But could you imagine being a grieving mother having lost her son in combat and like there's no good explanation why this one honorable gesture is not being seen through so by the way, what, what, what was their reaction to Total?

Speaker 3: 38:06

outrage. Yeah, you know, I mean exactly what you would expect. Like Barbara had, you know, talked about going public with. Expect, like barbara had, you know, talked about going public with it. I think she, she had talked about it. It's I'm sure you can google it on the news glenn's mom just being like this like what the hell is going on here?

Speaker 3: 38:20

Um, it was my job to take action. It was my job to file the federal lawsuit and and take a swing at uncle sam. Um, so I did and I don't think I was in that courtroom for three hours and I lost. The judge knew it. It was a slam-dunk case against me. The Defense Base Act, as archaic as it is written in 1942, it's legislation, man, it's like it's baked you have to change the legislation, okay. So I lost and the judge was incredibly sympathetic and I remember you know she admonished the Rutherford insurance attorneys in the room about their stance on this. Like how dare you? So I left and kind of licked my wounds and kind of recalibrated and rethought I said, well, you know, when I think of Glenn's legacy in this sense, like there's sort of this immediate goal get Glenn's death benefit paid.

Speaker 3: 39:24

I had a second goal and even a third goal that came about through this experience. And the second one was I don't want Glenn's brothers to suffer the same fate that Glenn suffered Like. I know that these guys are divorced, they're single, they don't have kids, they're all in their 40s, someone else is going to die and are they going to suffer the same fate as Glenn? So I wanted to future-proof the contracting experience in the CIA so that future GRS agents, future folks that would go serve their country, wouldn't fall into the same trap that Glenn did. And I had something on my side.

Speaker 3: 39:59

I had the power of public opinion and media in 2015 and 2014. There was social media and there was a news cycle. And look, benghazi was in the news. It was Disproportionately long for what it was. It was in the news for years and, you know, I could say it should still be in the news. But, given our news cycle, I'm aware that it outlived its normal lifespan and I'm grateful for that. Yeah, I was going to say that was tremendous leverage for you, I'm guessing.

Speaker 3: 40:36

Well, it helped in a couple of ways. There was a congressional hearing that was national news, and I spent, you know, a couple of weeks flying out to Washington DC sitting down with Elijah Cummings and Trey Gowdy, who are the co-chairs of the US congressional hearing on Benghazi. I leveraged that as an opportunity with those attorneys from K&L Gates an attorney named Amy Carnival, who is just an essential figure in helping with us to get a meeting with John Brennan In the summer of 2015,. I got to sit down with John Brennan, you know, a year after losing the lawsuit, and I get in the room with the director of the CIA. And here I am snowboard guy, you know putting on a shirt?

Speaker 2: 41:21

I was just about to ask you was there a moment when you're in that room, where you're going, fuck man, I'm in here with the director of the.

Speaker 3: 41:31

CIA Every second of it, like I couldn't believe it. I was like how am I private citizen living in Encinitas, california, in the same room as the director of the CIA? This is someone I only read about on the news and it's one of the scariest men in our country yeah and and I'm I'm not only in the room with them, jack, I'm in the room, mad like I'm mad.

Speaker 3: 42:00

I lost that lawsuit and I'm taking what I feel like is my last swing to one do achievement, achieve goal number one, get that death benefit paid and to protect protect Glenn's future brothers. And so I get in the room and I bend downstairs in like this kind of like open legal sharing area where they gave me a copy of Glenn's contract to view. They're like oh well, you know, as the executive of his estate and power of attorney, you're allowed to view his contract and it was like I could read like 10 words in the entire thing. Everything else was blacked out with Sharpie marker redacted and I'm like this is fucking bullshit, like I can't even look at his contract to understand where there could be some openings, nuances, like any kind of legal argument to prepare.

Speaker 3: 42:48

I was just boiling over and I get in the room with John Brennan and at this point I'm steaming mad and we sit down and he asked me a couple of light questions about Glenn and who he was, and I explained to him how Glenn was one of the most important people in this country and I you know, I'm sorry, john, you didn't get to know him. Or director Brennan, like I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to meet this man, because he would have been one of your best friends. You would have loved him, he would have loved you, he would care about you. So why don't you care about him? And that was it. I came a little uncorked and I just said you have an opportunity here to do the right thing. You're the director of the CIA. Don't tell me you don't have a half million dollars sitting in a suitcase somewhere that you can't send to Glenn's family to show your appreciation for someone who laid down their life serving their country.

Speaker 2: 43:46

Don't tell me that Because you and I both know or I assume these were off the record conversations that you and glenn had a half a million bucks to the cia that's passed around to people every day, all day long, year round. It's nothing. I'm sorry that's classified.

Speaker 3: 44:13

Yeah man and I'm like I'm in the room with this guy and I am fired up and I'm mad, I'm like don't tell me that. And I just said, look, you've got an opportunity here to do the right thing and think of what it's going to look like when I'm standing outside with news cameras around me, talking to the New York Times and every other media source out there, talking to them about how you didn't. And I kind of laid my thread on the table and I got a kick onto the table. I'll never forget it. Glenn's sister, she's like shut up, Sean.

Speaker 3: 44:44

You're going too far and I'm sweating bullets, and I'm sweating bullets Like I'm scared, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm mad saying these things. I mean, I'm also, I'm aware, I'm aware of who I'm in the room with.

Speaker 2: 44:59

Let's go and say, obviously you, you're not the kind of guy who experiences fear and then steps back, you engage, which is really the definition of of courage. But I would have to assume there was some level of intimidation factor, just because of where and who you're talking to in the moment momentum had built and I had my things to say and I had my shot and I had to take it.

Speaker 3: 45:26

That's it. There was no other way. At the almost immediately after is that like? Why am I sweating profusely? Why am I so?

Speaker 3: 45:34

nervous like holy shit. I just said these words to the director of the cia, sure? So director brandon says one thing to me, like on the very few words, the entire conversation. He says we'll look into it. And he stands up and we shook hands because you know it's a polite thing to do, and there's six attorneys in the room, and, um, and he got up and walked, shook hands because you know it's a polite thing to do, and there's six attorneys in the room, and he got up and walked out. And I'm sitting there and I'm just like, look into it, like what does that even mean? And so I'm thinking he just blew me off categorically and I just took my shot, and I was too. I didn't do it right, I screwed it up, it didn't feel like a deeply genuine.

Speaker 2: 46:12

We'll look into it.

Speaker 3: 46:14

I don't know that anything could have felt right. When I'm thinking I'm talking with a politician or someone in a role like that, I can't overanalyze it. I know it felt empty and I was mad. But then Amy Carnival, the attorney, kind of grabbed me. She's like no, no, this is good. What do you mean? This is good. She's like. I live in DC, I've been around these meetings. I know If he wasn't going to do anything, he would have just walked out of the room and not said a word.

Speaker 3: 46:46

Yeah, but he said something that's meaningful, all right, so glimmer of hope. So we walk out of the room and this is really where the third part of the challenge and opportunity came into play. We don't know how it's going to go. I had laid out two goals with the Central Intelligence Agency Pay Glenn's death benefit and please fix this for the future. Now I didn't have a roadmap to what fix it for the future looked like. My version of that in my head was like write in clear language on the in-doc that they should get a supplemental insurance policy, should they meet certain specific criteria. Give them knowledge. Like Glenn's a smart guy, glenn was very intelligent. Had he known that that policy was never going to pay out. I promise you, jack, he never would have gotten it, he never would have signed up for it.

Speaker 2: 47:40

You knew him well. I can't help but think that Glenn was a very detail-oriented person. You don't do what he did for a living if you aren't no, so to the extent that he could have been looked into and felt comfortable about it he had looked into it when he took out the policy you got it.

Speaker 3: 48:00

So I had that goal and I told them what I wanted them to do. But I'm a private citizen. I don't write government contracts. I don't know what that looks like. I'm a private citizen, I don't write government contracts. I don't know what that looks like. I just knew that I wanted Glenn's life insurance paid and I wanted his future brothers to be protected.

Speaker 3: 48:21

And then Amy just hatched this idea on a third goal. She's like. You know, glenn was this important person and so were the other Americans killed over there. Why don't we try and get them all awarded the Congressional Gold Medal? It's the highest civilian honor in the United States government, arguably. There's nothing larger that you can do. It's like the Medal of Honor for citizens. You can lobby to have that awarded to Glenn and Ty Woods and Ambassador Stevens and Sean Smith, and like all four of them could receive this.

Speaker 3: 48:57

And I was just like that's amazing. What do we got to do? It wasn't even a question. It wasn't like oh no, that's too much paperwork. It was like what do we do? She's like well, fly back to DC and we'll set up some meetings with some congressmen and some senators and we'll go that route. So now I've got three things at play and they all feel right and they all feel like, quite frankly, moonshots, like I already lost Sue in the government. I threatened Brennan. He didn't, you know, bat an eye, but apparently it meant something. Well, nine months later, I get a call from Amy and the Cain and Elgates people and they say hey, you're not going to believe this. John Brennan and his team are not only going to pay Glenn's death benefit, but they're going to pay that death benefit back to a couple dozen families that fell into the exact same trap that Glenn did, dating back to the terror attacks in Beirut. What 1984? Something like that? 83, 84? Right.

Speaker 3: 50:01

And I'm like I mean, I was what? Was I 11 years old when that happened? I'm like, are you kidding me? They're like, yeah, they found dozens of families. So this guy that I was all mad at ended up talking with his team huddling up and they come up with a list you know 30, some odd families that all fell into the exact same category as Glenn. And you know it took a year and a half or longer to like process the paperwork and do all the things. We're talking millions of dollars paid out to all these families.

Speaker 3: 50:34

And I remember because, like, the foundation was set up, glenn's foundation was established and one of the families reached out to the foundation because they got word like they didn't know how this happened. It was the cia is not very forthcoming and like their operative standards. So the CIA says here's a check for $550,000, $600,000. Thank you for your dad's service or your grandfather's service or whatever your brother's service, whatever the surviving next of kin was. And they would ask questions Well, how did this happen? Where did this come about? And somewhere the word got out that it happened from our fight with glenn. And I remember like getting like an email forwarded to me from one of the families just saying thank you. Like this changed our lives. You know, like not a wealthy family, and it was someone's you know brother had died in afghanistan or overseas and it was, you know, life changing money.

Speaker 3: 51:32

We're talking millions of dollars, aren't we? Well, you're talking. It's a half million bucks per family, or 600 grand like you know, depending where you live, dude, that's life changing money. It's a start over, but it's also closing the loop. It's closing the circle on this horrible event in anyone's life and tragedy and it gives them this moment to reflect and say, wow, my country did do the right thing.

Speaker 2: 52:01

Yes, Because when you've made a sacrifice in your case of a brother, a friend or a son or daughter, and you've experienced that loss when they were serving their country, and then for your departing communication with their employer or those who contracted them to be, we're not going to give you this. That makes it pretty tough to have closure.

Speaker 3: 52:31

Oh, yeah, how do you, like you're angry at the government, you're angry at what happened and like you know, like what the hell man? Yeah, so getting that note, like getting that there was a few of them that just that, like, dude, you want to talk about having something kind of fill your bucket? Oh, can you imagine? So that happened. And then fast forward. I got you know informally word that hey, um, they also, they did that future proofing thing you want. So all of a sudden, box one, check, box two check, objective one done, objective two done. And like what does that actually mean? And I found out years later. I was in boston for this conference and I ended up meeting an attorney who'd recently retired from the central intelligence agency, worked there for 18 years in house counsel, and we met. He says I know you, he's, like you're that guy, you're that guy that you know, know, really stirred the pot. And I was like I'm sorry, yeah, you know.

Speaker 3: 53:33

I am that guy and he says I want to thank you. I said well, why. He said well, I was able to write one of the most meaningful memos of my entire legal careers because of what you did. I said what do you mean, man? He's like when you went after John Brennan, who was my boss, and you fought not only for the death benefit but when you were fighting for the GRS operatives and these other operatives that were dying in the line of service, I got to write the internal memo, which is a very big deal. It's not like a memo, like hey, I've got a sticky pad memo, it's a legally binding document inside of the operations manuals of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Speaker 3: 54:19

He said we now have a policy that if anyone dies serving their country overseas in the Central Intelligence Agency, regardless of their marital status or dependency status, they will be paid out of a discretionary fund um, the equivalent of a full death benefit. And that happened because of you and I was like wow, thank you. Like just thank you, no, no, thank you. Like it's this little thank you back and forth. But I'm like shit that that did more than what I thought my objective number two was going to do. I was thinking they were going to like sign this document to acknowledge that you have to get your own life insurance policy. Not, hey, we got your back Right. And man, if you're going to go and go to war for your country, if you're going to go and provide IT services for your country, it feels really good knowing your country's got your back.

Speaker 2: 55:14

Absolutely. What did it mean to you? Because I have to believe there were moments, more than one moment, because you've called them moonshots, you know. You said, hey, these were moonshots, where you probably thought to yourself damn it, glenn, I'm sorry, I'm trying, I'm doing my best, but I don't know that I'm going to be able to get this one done. So when you finally checked those boxes and you thought about Glenn and the connection you had and the promises that were made, if you can even describe it, how did it feel to know you fulfilled what you said you would do?

Speaker 3: 56:08

I'll tell you when I get there.

Speaker 3: 56:09

Gotcha dude, I'll tell you when I get there Gotcha, you know in a funny way it's been on to the next yeah, and I guess I know that's how I live and wired it's like cool. That was yesterday. On to the next yeah. What was the next thing? The next job wasn't to rest and pat myself on the back and give an attaboy. The next job was to get the Congressional Gold Medal Award. To rest and pat myself on the back and give an attaboy. The next job was to get the congressional gold medal awarded. That was the next job.

Speaker 3: 56:36

Um, I you know and that that could sound really shitty to some people that say you got to stop and smell the roses and give positive. And I do have those moments, but they're not that. They're these little moments of like what would glenn do? And their little moments of inspiration are just kind Glenn do, and they're little moments of inspiration or just kind of looking up at the sky, feeling like all right man, he'd be with me right now. He'd be, he'd be in for whatever I'm doing.

Speaker 3: 57:00

And you know, like I have a lot of those moments now, like I I mean, look what I'm wearing. I'm wearing a shirt. This is Bubz Naturals. Glenn's call sign in the Navy was Bub. I've got a brand dedicated in his memory, delivering health and wellness to, you know, tens of thousands of people, and it's all driven and inspired by him. I don't I'm not looking to give myself an attaboy or think like, hey man, be proud of this, it's, it's what he would do. And if I do nothing else but but live up to that standard and try and hold myself and those around me to that same standard, then I'm just doing what my boy would do.

Speaker 2: 57:38

Have you ever taken, even if it was a second where it's just hit you and said you know what life is weird. What would I be doing right now? Where would I be had I never have met Glenn Doherty?

Speaker 3: 57:55

My wife put this to me, heather put this to me just the other night, cause she's like, she's like you know, if Glenn was alive, you wouldn't have bubs. You're absolutely right. There would be no bubs if Glenn was alive. It'd be called bibs. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 58:11

Like, yeah, there wouldn't have been a company, there wouldn't have been the spark, there wouldn't have been this drive to help others in it, or it would have taken a different form, like it's it's wild to think that way and it's like I hit, I just like it's like staring into a black room. I'm like I don't know right, but yeah, I, I definitely like we. We had a neat conversation around like what, what would you be doing? Like would I be just on the marketing director at some other company? You know, maybe right, um, you know, I was, I definitely was tested, like I was given a horrible situation and I I had to act on and again, my grief cycle responded well to having purpose and cause and, you know, a drive to to right a wrong and some people don't like you know, I don't know what your experience was with Kevin.

Speaker 3: 59:01

Like you might've been left with a pit in your stomach and you didn't have an outlet that you or you didn't have a ready thing to go after, so you had to like churn inside of yourself for a long time before you found peace and solace and were able to move on. I think in some ways I'm grateful that I had a job to do.

Speaker 3: 59:22

In other ways you know it was. Maybe I missed something in the grief cycle and I haven't closed that door, or maybe never will.

Speaker 2: 59:31

I don't know you know it was almost a year after Kevin died that I even realized what it was In the I don't know. It probably started a couple of months after he had died and I didn't even relate it to him. There was just kind of this something doesn't feel complete, it was really vague, but I had just felt this shift, again that I did not in any way relate to his death and you know it's one of those things you notice. But you've got stuff to do, so you're back into doing what you have to do. And then one day I'm driving down the road and I thought of this crazy to call Kevin, because we had for 15 years and this was not anything planned or a blood brother pact or anything, we just did this.

Speaker 2: 1:00:40

We had talked every day for 15 years, even if it was three minutes, something would come up. For 15 years, even if it was three minutes, something would come up and we'd call each other every day and it was in that moment I realized I didn't have that person. He was the only guy that I was connected with on that level and when he was gone it didn't get filled. And so at that moment I just pull over and I go my God, that's it. That's it. That part of my day is it doesn't exist anymore. You know so I'm sure you've had that as well where it's not immediate, it's not like you get this bullet-pointed list. You know, the day after you find out you know they've died. Where you go. Okay, this is going to be different. This is going to be different. It's going to be different. In some cases, it can it definitely happened in periods over time.

Speaker 3: 1:01:48

I can tell you that my thoughts around Glenn now are more celebratory and happy than sad. Yeah, initially it was sadness and it was weighted I think appropriately and there's always funny things because he was such a comedian, he's always just this great little Irish jokester. But there were those moments where it shifted and I remember that after a few years and like you know, yeah, like would Glenn have fought the way I fought for doing what's right? Yeah, he would have A hundred percent. I was buoyed by that, I was anchored by that knowledge.

Speaker 3: 1:02:26

When the job was done, it was on to the next. But it was definitely like, okay, we checked a box, but when you check a box, man, that means something that's done, like you've accomplished that, that's great. Now let's go accomplish the next thing. And the next thing was the Congressional Gold Medal. The next thing was the brand, which was a total accident, like a happy accident. But again, like these other things, like I would never have known to go for the congressional gold medal if it wasn't for Amy's advice at K&L Gates.

Speaker 3: 1:03:01

But Amy couldn't do much if I wasn't motivated to do it. Like I had to bring the fight, I had to go there and convince congressmen and more congressmen and senators that this was worth it. It took years I mean the whole process. Soup to nuts was like what eight years to get this thing signed into law. And by the way, conclusion moment this was signed into law, glenn and the three other Americans killed will receive the Congressional Gold Medal at a ceremony sometime later this year. I've been told it could be around Christmas, maybe a little bit sooner, but it's done. And it took dude. It was down to the wire. We went through three different Congressional sessions and every time we we missed a congressional session we had to start over and like kick it back into gear.

Speaker 3: 1:03:52

It was a nightmare and at the end of 2022 we all agreed it was our last run at it. Like if we couldn't get it that time, man, like that was it. And it's funny because we went right down to the wire and you know it was November of 2022. And the congressional session, as you know, ends around Thanksgiving, like right after Thanksgiving, like for the Christmas break. That's it Right. And then you got midterm elections and then it's like the new Congress starts and we're like, if we don't get this done and it goes another into the new Congress. We're done Like I don't think Glenn's family didn't have the fight in them to keep it up.

Speaker 3: 1:04:30

The attorneys had kind of maxed it out. I think they were like, hey, this whole pro bono thing, you know we've done as much as we can and they had a lead attorney, you know amy carnival, this guy, dennis potter and they came to me and kate before the thanksgiving break, at kate glenn's sister, and they're like okay, guys, who do you? Because these are the last congressmen, they're like, who do you know? And I, at that point I had Bubz Naturals. We were four years in business and because of the nature of the brand and what we were doing in nutrition and wellness and the connections and friendships that I had made in the USS government in various areas. We did know a couple people and I said, okay, well, how many more signatures do we need? And it was like 13 or 14 signatures. But they were like senators and it was like these are the hardest people to convince and I'm like, well, give me some of the outliers. They'd rattle off all these names of US senators and I'm like I know the congressional aid to this senator uh, kennedy was one of them and the guy's aid, like his was a girl and her boyfriend was someone I had put through a fitness camp called seal fit, and I'm like I know that guy. I could call him and it was like angling every which way. Here I am trying to grow a business, but I'm like no, no, no, I got, this is the last shot, you got to go for it.

Speaker 3: 1:05:51

And I did this blitz campaign and right before Thanksgiving I get one of the names of the U S senators the Senator from Vermont, bernie Sanders and I'm like you don't say well, when I worked at Burton snowboards 19 years earlier, I worked with a guy named Dave Driscoll who's his godson. So I called Dave. Haven't talked to him in a few years, but we're friendly, we talk about fitness and being dads and staying healthy. And I'm like Dave yeah, sean, I've never asked you for a favor and I'm asking for one now. Are you going to have dinner with the old man on Thanksgiving? He's like, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:06:33

I'm like, okay, I need you to do something for me. I need you to put this piece of legislation in front of him and get him to sign it. Because if Bernie Sanders, who doesn't sign anything like this ever, if he signs it, every one of his coworkers will will recognize the value of it and they will sign it. And Dave, bless his soul, did it. He got it in front of Bernie and said hey dad, you know I don't ask you for a lot of stuff. Um, I need you to take a look at this piece. And you know Dave knew me, knows I'm a no bullshit guy or I'm full of shit, but not in that sense. And you got it done. And then I got word on it and I remember the lawyers calling me like how did you get Bernie Sanders to sign this thing? And I'm like you asked Wow.

Speaker 2: 1:07:22

And so that gave way.

Speaker 3: 1:07:24

then that was the tipping point. And then the other Us senators, you know kennedy, signed, and then a couple of the other guys signed and it was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Um, it got in front of the president. Uh, at christmas of 2022 he signed it off privately. No real big news buzz, just a little blip, article, um, and then all of 2023 was going through the process of picking the artist. What is? It's a physical coin, it's a gold medal. Um, what is the art rendering is going to look like and when does it get issued? So I I'm kind of waiting for that, that word of like. Hey, the ceremony will be in, you know, november in washington dc, and I will invite every single one of Glenn's friends to get out there and celebrate his kick-ass life. Wow.

Speaker 2: 1:08:17

So in terms of the immediate boxes, then did that pretty much represent that final box in terms of what the initial agreements had been?

Speaker 3: 1:08:30

Yeah, that final box in terms of the what the initial agreements had been my social contract was fulfilled at that time. If there's a fourth box, it's my job to go out and live the best possible life that I can live. I think that that was kind of an underlying theme and all of this. But when it comes to like truly honoring Glenn's memory, you know I we have the foundation and it's it's issued out over 50 scholarships to date. It's operating under an endowment, so they they've got a really strong investment structure at the Glenn Doherty Memorial Foundation.

Speaker 3: 1:09:03

Um, I love my role in the foundation, which is that I've got nothing to do with the foundation other than I try and drive as much revenue and awareness and people to it because they're doing great work, and I get to write checks every year from the, from Bubz Naturals, like I get to literally give 10% of all profits and 100% of proceeds on Veterans Day every single year and drive that right into glenn's foundation. And I mean, you want to talk about a good day. It's it's a week after veterans day when I get to like run the numbers and crunch them and be like, okay, like this is what we get to do. I get to write a twenty thousand dollar check to glenn's foundation. You know, I'm six years in on this journey of of not you know, of starting a brand and celebrating the legacy and inspiring others towards health and wellness, and that's felt like the best way to to amplify the great things that he stood for. And, yeah, man, I'm putting my mark on it.

Speaker 3: 1:10:08

Like you know, glenn stood for health, wellness, self-improvement. That's what we do at Bubz and I get to give 10% of profits to charitable causes in Glenn's name. Like, I get to celebrate what he stood for, I get to talk to you about him and, you know, and maybe make a difference in other people's lives, because that's what he would do, right, and, if I can do it, because you're gonna buy a jar of collagen peptides and improve your life and live longer and better. That's glenn. Yeah, and you know that you're gonna help someone else transition from active duty to civilian life because of that, like, that's it and like, and this is it, like 10% of that gesture and like, so there's that, like, I guess, fourth box live a great life. Fifth box keep his memory alive, and that's.

Speaker 2: 1:11:00

So let's talk about your company, more specifically your, your product line, collagen peptides. Just kind of for the listeners, just kind of give a background on the importance of collagen peptides.

Speaker 3: 1:11:17

Well, I'll let them know in a little. First off, set the stage a little bit. Jacker, you guys may or may not know, is closer to 60 than he is 50. Closer to 60 than he is 20. Yes, closer to 60 than he is 50. Closer to 60 than he is 20. Yes, um, I am glad to say that I'm closer to 50 than I am 60.

Speaker 3: 1:11:37

Um, but you know, the idea is like hey man, we're all getting a little bit older and collagen is a protein in the human body. It's the most abundant protein in the human body. And I learned all my nerdy, like what I should take for nutrition, from glenn, like this is all inspired, is a protein in the human body. It's the most abundant protein in the human body. And I learned all my nerdy, like what I should take for nutrition, from Glenn, like this is all inspired from when we were roommates and we were doing CrossFit like crazy and he would just be the one to talk to me about nutrition. Well, college and I learned about later it wasn't around when Glenn was alive and it's a protein. It's the most abundant protein in the human body.

Speaker 3: 1:12:09

As you age, in your twenties, you stop naturally producing collagen and your collagen levels go down every single year, and for women it's worse than men. It goes down faster in women than men, which is why women you know one of the reasons why they can look older at 40 than, say, a male at 40. And it's not fair. But it's genetics, it's just biology. If you don't supplement with collagen, if you're not naturally getting it in your diet which means if you're not eating two to three pounds of ground beef every single day and you know we're talking jugs of bone broth you're just not getting enough collagen naturally in your diet, and none of us are. So you have to supplement with collagen in order to teach your body to keep producing its own collagen stores. So what does collagen do? It is the glue that holds your body together in the most simplistic terms. So think tighter skin, stronger fingernails, better hair and that's all connective tissue.

Speaker 3: 1:13:12

Well, I love it for muscle recovery, like go out and blow it out at the gym and the next day get up and go do it again, and joint health is phenomenal for joint health. Well, the example I always like to give is that collagen is a protein. It's made up of select amino acids. It is an incomplete protein, so it does not have tryptophan in its amino acid profile, which means it's not going to get you like super yoked. It's not a giant protein build, it's a repair protein.

Speaker 3: 1:13:41

So for joint health, collagen has four grams of glycine per serving Our collagen does, and that's a lot. Has four grams of glycine per serving Our collagen does, and that's a lot. And four grams per serving of glycine does two things. Number one it produces synovial fluid. So glycine lubricates your joints. It cushions and lubricates those joints. Second, glycine is linked to strong sleep patterns, recovery, better sleep, better recovery. And then there's leucine, arginine, lysine, there's all these other select amino acids that all go back into cellular repair Hair, skin nails, muscles, your gut linings, bone density, so there's so many things that glue your body together. So it's an unflavored, heat-tolerant, unflavored protein, unflavored Like I put in my coffee every single morning.

Speaker 2: 1:14:33

That's a big thing unflavored, because one of the biggest complaints that you hear about any supplement out there is some of them just don't taste very good and so people, even though they know they should take it, they might not because they say, oh the taste. So you basically have a flavorless product.

Speaker 3: 1:14:55

Yeah, the idea is, if it's unflavored, it's heat tolerant and it's super soluble, you can work it into anywhere in your daily routine. You cook rice throw in your rice. You're making a stew throw in your stew. Oatmeal throw in there. Cereal put in there. Smoothie check, matcha check.

Speaker 3: 1:15:14

I'm a coffee drinker, throw in my coffee and it's just ease of daily routine. It works its way into your daily routine. And then we also make a functional creamer, which is a fancy way of saying coconut oil sprayed into tapioca starch. It's a literally rocket fuel for mental focus and energy from healthy fats. So have you ever heard like a bulletproof style coffee? Oh, yes, yes. So we make one that's got two ingredients MCT oil, tapioca starch two things, and I love the simplicity. Man Like I'm not a scientist, I know what works on me. And collagen, and the reason we started this brand is I had a very personal experience taking collagen. I was 45 years old at the time. I started taking collagen religiously. My wife introduced me to it and famously told me I wasn't getting any younger and I needed to take this and I listened and after a month of taking collagen, my fingernails were growing like crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:16:19

I needed a haircut. And after two months, Jack dude, I got out of bed and I was like, oh my God, all those years of snowboarding and surfing and mountain biking and CrossFit and lifting weights, I feel great, you could feel it Feeling for that man.

Speaker 3: 1:16:37

I was slowing down, I was feeling the effects of aging and I was, quite frankly, getting a little bit scared. Yeah, I was like, oh, is this, it Is this? How is this what life's like? Like it just kind of starts to suck Right.

Speaker 3: 1:16:52

And now the MCTs a creamer has me like rocket fuel for energy. I'm good to go and I've got collagen repairing my body and keeping me at it. So when we get done here, I'm going to raise home. I have a six and an eight-year-old. I'm going to go knock out a workout in the gym, cook everyone dinner, get them all down to bed, have a blast. And I'm not bonking. And I'm doing it from all natural ingredients. Like, hey, man, sign me up. There's no synthetic crap stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:17:23

And because it's Bub, it's all inspired by Glenn and Bub was Glenn's call sign in the Navy, if I didn't mention that earlier. Yeah, yeah, I take this whole thing out and I third-party test it the whole line. It's NSF for sports certified, it's Whole30 approved, it's got that validation marker, so that I don't just say to someone oh, you should buy this because my buddy Glenn died and it's a great cause. We don't approach it that way. I approach it with a different lens. I say, jack, I can help you. That's what Glenn would do. This product is going to help you.

Speaker 2: 1:18:00

How important that is, that third-party testing, because that's such a vital piece of the consumer being able to purchase a product that they can trust.

Speaker 3: 1:18:15

Yeah. So NSF, the National Sanitation Foundation, tests for impurities. It tests for the integrity of the ingredients and the label claims that you make. So when I write on the jar, 20 grams collagen protein per serving, that's what you get. And when I say joint health and I write in hair, skin nails and those benefits, they are validating that I can make those claims and not just be some snake oil. And that is incredibly important to me for the consumer to know. Hey, this thing's been tested for like hundreds of banned substances. It is the standard of the US Olympic team, major League Baseball, the National Football League and any player of any professional sport has to have that mark on the product for those athletes to ingest it. And I mean, one of the things I'm the most proud of in all this which is kind of funny because I was never a baseball player is we're in the locker room of over two thirds of the teams in major league baseball.

Speaker 2: 1:19:19

No kidding.

Speaker 3: 1:19:19

Yeah, wow, yeah, they love us. Like it's a great relationship, like I get to meet with the Red Sox and the Yankees and the Brewers and the Padres, and like you know my hometown team benefit right. I'm not saying I get tickets to games that has not come to fruition, but it's nice bragging rights when I can be like oh yeah, st Louis Cardinals, right, right, best customers.

Speaker 2: 1:19:44

Now, am I correct in stating that if you purchase a product, a supplement, that has not been third-party tested, you really cannot know what's in that?

Speaker 3: 1:19:57

product A hundred percent, and I'm not a fear monger, right Like. I think there's good brands operating with integrity that have good products. I also think there's a lot of bad players out there, and I've seen it. I've watched it with my own eyes. I also think there's a lot of bad players out there, and I've seen it. I've watched it with my own eyes. You know, I've been in this industry now for six and a half years. I've learned along the way, like you, better test what you're putting into market, because you can't trust your suppliers, you can't trust everything and some owners don't care. Some are just like, yeah, well, screw it, let's just see what happens and that's out there, right. And then there's other ones, I think, that operate with incredible integrity. I'm always a big fan of brands like Thorne and what they do, because they third-party test damn near everything that they make and they stand by that. Your quality is written over just everything that they do. And hey, man, you're putting this in your body.

Speaker 3: 1:20:49

I have you might want to make sure you're getting the real deal.

Speaker 2: 1:20:54

Not far from where I'm standing I have a bottle of Thorne N-Acetyl Cysteine NAC, because I have taken other brands cheaper, lesser brands that are not third party tested or lesser brands that are not third-party tested. I can tell the difference between the non-third-party tested and Thorne.

Speaker 3: 1:21:16

And for folks paying attention to that, like, oh, I've heard of collagen, I take the one I buy at Costco. That's great. I'm glad you're taking a great product. If I say, hey, if you're curious about what we do, come over to our site, check us out, Like, hit me up, ask some questions. I can tell you that we're going to have a better amino acid profile. It's going to be the cleanest product you can get on the market and it's going to deliver results. Yes, oh, and you are going to help someone else at the same time.

Speaker 2: 1:21:46

I was going to say so let's start with this, okay, third-party testing. So when I order that, I know what I'm getting. That's a big one. But if we set all of the nutritional end of it aside for just a moment and we say, when you purchase this product, it is a way of giving back to those who have given sometimes the ultimate gift for you. They have served their country and served it to such an extent they lost their life serving their country.

Speaker 2: 1:22:34

So to be able to not only take a product that's beneficial to you but in doing so also makes that, I guess, societal contribution, that's very appealing to me, especially in this rocky environment that we live in now. To be able to feel like we're giving, we're making smart decisions, and I'm somebody that's really focused on my health always have been so. That's an important part for me, and I know how that's really focused on my health. Always have been so that's an important part for me. And I know how important it is to be able to trust the company whose product that you purchase. But it's fairly rare to go out and find a company where, yeah, okay, you trust the company, but you can also know that 10% is being used in the way that you do.

Speaker 3: 1:23:39

Yeah, and let me lean in on that one a little bit, because it's funny here we are, this bootstrap company that's been clawing our way out and trying to grow and scale and like, get the word out. Like, hey, we're bubs, this is what we do. This is why we haven't been profitable in six years. Okay, wow, so we're talking six years. We still have managed to donate over $260,000 to Glenn's Foundation and charitable causes along the way, to Glenn's foundation and charitable causes along the way. So, like, I'm keenly aware that, like, the day we make a million dollars in profit, I get to write a hundred thousand dollar check. I can't wait until that moment happens and you trust me, we're we're learning a lot about the business and how to do it right. But then we just do other things like, well, let's go give 100% of proceeds on Veterans Day every year. It's a guarantee. If I can't give 10% of profits, if we're not going to be profitable, then I'm going to find a way.

Speaker 3: 1:24:38

Let's sponsor events. Like the Honor Foundation has an annual run. Let's write them a check for $10,000. We'll call it marketing, I don't care. It puts money in the Honor Foundation's hands to drive awareness into that transitioning special operations. Soldier, let's sponsor Glenn's Road Race every single year. Title sponsored, let's go. What does it do? It offsets their cost. Drive more money into the charity. So we're scrappy man. I think we've probably established that at this time, that I'm going to find a way to get it done, absolutely right.

Speaker 2: 1:25:12

Well, let's talk about the importance of what you are doing in terms of I guess you can also look at this as being for the end user, the consumer. Yeah, today you are doing an episode on my podcast. This is going to be viewed and listened to by subscribers of my podcast. They're going to learn about your product and they're going to learn about it like this, rather than seeing it, let's say, on one of the big networks where you've had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for ads, which you then have to put back into the prices that you charge for your product.

Speaker 3: 1:25:59

Yeah, which diminishes the amount that you're actually able to give to profit, because your EBITDAs are off, because your marketing expenses are so high to grow the pie in the first place. Right.

Speaker 3: 1:26:10

We're always trying to optimize for profit margin and like, hey, man, if we just get leaner and tighter and do a better job, and yeah, I mean you know, the appeal of being able to talk about it in an open forum like this is, you know, we can. I can literally like I can tell that I got your wheels turning on collagen and you going to be like man. I need to work this into my routine.

Speaker 2: 1:26:30

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:26:31

And in two months from now, you are going to shoot me a text message after you started taking it and you're going to be like Sean yeah it's on, I'll tell you.

Speaker 2: 1:26:40

I'll just go on record. And when you said collagen, one of the things of many that really went, pow, okay, it's got my attention. Like I said, I just turned 58 in April, so you know a couple of years I'll be 60 years old. I keep trying to deny that and pretend that I'm still 29, but it's not working.

Speaker 2: 1:27:06

But something I noticed within the last six months I was at, I think, one of my daughter's ball games and I was standing there and I was in a pair of shorts and I was leaning on one leg and I just happened to look down. So that right leg, I guess, was kind of contracted, but yet at the same time, right around my knee it was kind of relaxed and I saw something I had never seen on myself ever before and it kind of freaked me out. I looked down, I looked away and I looked back down and I saw what people call just a little bit of creepy skin on my which, that old person's skin. I saw that on my knee and I was like holy Jesus, this can't be, I'm not ready, I'm not ready for that.

Speaker 2: 1:28:15

Right, but it wasn't. A week later. And you know how, when something's on your radar, then you start noticing related things out in the world. If you buy a red car, you start noticing how many of the red cars there are. Yeah, and I started hearing these associations to skin health and collagen. Fast forward a couple of months and I'm getting an email from somebody introducing me to you, you know, and oh, wow, okay, this guy has a what company? Collagen peptides. So, yeah, I I have to admit I was as excited about this episode uh, just for the product as much as I was for the story, because I knew this was something.

Speaker 3: 1:29:08

Yeah, like you learn about it along the way. Like, look, I stumbled into this because my wife brought it home and introduced me to it and said, hey, this is supposed to be able to help with you. And that was in 2017. And I am forever grateful for that opportunity, just to be a customer, just to buy the product.

Speaker 3: 1:29:26

Like you know, the brand came about because, you know, I wanted this drive to charitable giving. Like I, we wanted a way to create a vehicle to put money into glenn's foundation and you know, the only available tools were, like you could check out on amazon and donate one percent to a charity. Like there are these little mechanisms that were in place that I was aware of. But I'm, how do you institutionalize charitable giving? And I thought about the corporate buy cycle and I'm like man, if every company just gave a percentage point, think of what a difference could be made. And take it from me as someone who's running a company six years and we haven't made it to that full profitable line yet. You got to really want it. But if you want it, bad enough, you're going to make it happen. So you know, for Go ahead.

Speaker 2: 1:30:18

I think I already know the answer to this and I'm smiling thinking about what I know the answer to be Is it safe to say that, while now you are fully invested in this company and the product, safe to say that, were it not for its connection to Glenn, that six years in not having hit that full profit line yet, without Glenn's memory behind it and association with it, it might not have been as full steam ahead as it is now that his memory is part of the driving force?

Speaker 3: 1:31:08

That's a very safe statement. I mean, glenn's memory is 100% a driving force for me. It's a sense of motivation, it's something to take great pride in. It anchors what we do. I have to believe in what I do. I have to believe in the why. There's a strong enough why in just the product itself and what it does for your longevity.

Speaker 3: 1:31:31

I mean, look at anyone who's listening to this, like I don't care what brand you buy, but invest in collagen peptides. Invest in looking into MCT oil and what it can do for your energy levels, your mental focus. Like look at these products for what they can do for the human body. These are products from nature. There's hundreds of brands out there. Yes, I'm biased because we went through painstaking levels to like make sure we were going to go out swinging with the absolute best. And yeah, it's been hard, it's not easy. Starting a company I don't care what entrepreneur out there is going to be like this is the easiest thing in the world. I just decided to have an idea and went out and did it. The amount of times you get punched in the face and get knocked down and have to get back up, you got to believe in it or get out Like don't bother, just go work for somebody else.

Speaker 3: 1:32:22

It's a lot easier to collect a paycheck and you can still do great work and take great pride in it. But to be at the helm of this thing and to have a business partner that I'm accountable to and to deliver for each other and for our customers and we I don't even look at them as customers. I look at it like it's a family, right, like that is a driver. If it wasn't Glenn, and if I had just done it on my own, I have no doubt that I could love it and drive it. Yeah, I've got an extra gear in me that's going to make sure this thing hits. And every time I get an email or a comment on social media from someone saying, hey, this changed my life, like that gets you out of bed, juice, man, that gets you fired up and going.

Speaker 2: 1:33:06

It does and, I think, one reason people can feel confident in the dedication and commitment that you've got to the company anybody who paid attention to your story and the commitment that you made to Glenn and the commitment that he made to you. But, as it turned out, you were the only one who gets to fill that commitment because unfortunately, he left first. You did things that were not easy to do. You kept promises that were not easy to keep and that took years. Some of them literally took years. So you didn't only start it, but you finished it. You saw it through to the end and when I buy a product, when I can know that the guy behind the product is somebody who has already shown that he's got that kind of commitment, it makes me feel a hell of a lot better about the product and every aspect of it. So I I think your story and not just the story, but your actions you know the, the example of the actions that you've taken, say so much, which is why your story is so important.

Speaker 3: 1:34:37

Thanks, ben. I appreciate that. I mean it's wild to be in a position to look at 11 and a half year journey since Glenn passed, since the terror attacks in Benghazi. I mean it'll be 12 years at the end of this year and like crazy, looking at that and thinking of all that's transpired in that time and, you know, just hoping that we're we're staying on the path, we're doing the right thing, we're, you know, rallied.

Speaker 3: 1:35:02

I'm more motivated than ever to to do this and this is to me right now is where it feels right to pour the energy and share Bub with the world, share who he was and change lives. And that's what we're here to do. I mean, we were able to change Glenn's family's life and all those other lives with that first wave of death benefit payments. We were able to change future lives by the next wave of contractors who are going to unfortunately fall, serving their country. And we're able to celebrate lives with the Congressional Gold Medal and now, with Bubs, we're able to help lives and help folks with longevity and aging.

Speaker 3: 1:35:46

And look, I'll be the first to say it aging sucks. Glenn would be 54 years old this year. Yeah, and I'll laugh. He'd always be a year older than me, but he'd be trying to do it the best way possible Stay as young as possible. We have this great expression. It's actually it's on my water bottle. It literally says die young as late as possible. I mean, it's actually, it's on my water bottle, um, it literally says die young as late as possible. I mean, it's a mantra.

Speaker 2: 1:36:12

I live by it, we live by it, it's like yo don't don't just fade out like let's go down swinging man oh, that, that's a, that's a perfect motto phrase, whatever, uh, you you want to call it.

Speaker 2: 1:36:26

I want to say something else too, because I keep coming back to, because for me personally and I know it is for a lot of people with whatever product they are involved with in their life, the person behind the product in some ways is the product, in some ways is the product. I want to point out that when Glenn died and you were handling his affairs, not only could you have, but Glenn had actually requested that you do this very thing. You could have and had every right to say, oh, I'm handling the affairs. Glenn wanted me to take this money and, you know, get his buddies and party with it. It's legal, it's mine. You didn't do that. No, in fact, if there's anything in terms of Glenn's wishes that you didn't fulfill to a T, it was his wish that you keep all the money and do your thing, although, I have to say, I'm quite sure Glenn would be smiling, and approvingly so, of what you did decide to do regarding the money.

Speaker 3: 1:37:51

That was a weird one. I mean, that was definitely. You know, what am I going to do? Like, look at Barbara Doherty, glenn's mom, and tell her hey, glenn wanted me to throw a raging party. The government's not going to pay this death benefit and I'm going to take this little amount of money. He wasn't a rich guy, he didn't have much money, sure, and I'm going to go take my friend's heli-skiing, right, it didn't sit right. Yeah, what did feel right was doing the divide by four. I'm like you know what I'm going to be like. You're going to 75% of this is going to Glenn's family Three quarters of it.

Speaker 3: 1:38:23

And that wasn't like he wasn't mad at him. Sure, it wasn't bitter. He was just like no man, like they make their money About your relationship with him. It was a statement about what Glenn valued in life. Yes, and he wanted the celebration, he wanted the good times to roll. I pulled an audible on that based on, I think, the severity of the situation, being finally hit with it. Because when he was alive, I was like, yeah, man, that's a great idea. Yeah, I'll throw a big party. And then this time he's not there and I'm like, well, I'm not doing that. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:38:56

Sorry. Yes, I'll throw an epic party, I'll throw dozens of epic parties, but no, this has got to go to the family. This is the right thing to do. And that was it. Like it wasn't, it wasn't up for debate. You know, I remember talking to my brother about it and I was like, hey, this is what Glenn said, letter like literally like this is what he wanted, um, and, but it's, it's all mine, it's mine to choose, right, so I choose his family Right.

Speaker 2: 1:39:22

And at the time when, when you were having that discussion with Glenn because I've been involved in these discussions as well and there's always the element looking back there was always that unseen element of, yeah, you were saying it, but neither of you expected things to be ending as quickly as they did. So in that regard, there's kind of a tongue-in-cheek hey, if I die, here's what I want you to do which at the time, you think, yeah, okay, I'll do that. But then when the reality of it smacks you right between the eyes, and not that long after the agreement's been made, no, a year Like not even a year.

Speaker 2: 1:40:10

Yeah, and that's when you're like, okay, holy shit, I can't. But if I could go back to that evening we had that discussion, it might have gone differently in terms of what I you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:40:23

You know it's funny. Those are some of the things you'll never know, like, I believe what Glenn said. I believe his intent. Oh, yes, he meant it, but hey, guess what man? He's not here and I am right, so I'll. I'll deal with him on the other side, when I get to the pearly gates and he's standing there and he's going to be like motherfucker loophole.

Speaker 2: 1:40:41

I threw a few good parties, absolutely, and also when you look at it just from Glenn's perspective, yes, he was fully aware of the career path he had chosen and the risks involved. But yet at the same time, no former Navy SEAL and CIA contractor going on those types of missions is a lay down and die kind of guy thinking it's going to end tomorrow because, right, I'll fight my way out of any fucking situation that comes along. So I'm going to be dead in a year.

Speaker 3: 1:41:20

No, no, no, we live forever. That was the deal. Like like Glenn and I had that idea we were laughing, making our wills out to each other. I'm like I'm going to die first. And that idea like we were laughing, making our wills out to each other. I'm like I'm gonna die first and he's like, no, I'm gonna die first. I'm like, nope, I'm guarantee you I will make a stupid life choice and I will be the first to go and you're not experiencing like yeah, we're laughing, we're gonna live forever. Yeah, this is a formality until it's not you bet until it's

Speaker 3: 1:41:43

not and I don't regret any of that like how I acted and and and the steps taken along the way. I mean sure, plenty of mistakes along the way, but the overall, you know actions taken and, uh, you know, like I, I can't wait to see him on the other side and be like, yeah, man, like you know what, gave it all to your family. Ha ha, yeah, and guess what? We also went heli skiing and the boys had a great time Right and a lot of smiles had and, god damn it, we celebrated your life right to the very end, Right, right.

Speaker 2: 1:42:21

Tell people how they can, how they can find your product, how they can, how they can buy your product.

Speaker 3: 1:42:27

Yeah. So I mean backing up a step, like again for anyone listening, like you know, if you're interested in nutrition and you're over the age of 25, cool, you're on an awesome journey because you're asking the right questions, like if you're curious about longevity and your wellness, and like what's going to help you stay in the fight longer. Your nutrition is going to be 75% 80% of the battle. You got to look into that. So, when it comes to parts of that nutrition, the part that we play, the role that we play is predominantly in collagen. It's in collagen peptides, it's in this protein that's going to help hold your body together and just keep you feeling as young as possible man, there's no other way of putting it. And the energy and the focus of our functional creamer line, like that coconut oil, those MCTs, are going to rocket fuel you.

Speaker 3: 1:43:19

So you find us at bubsnaturalscom. So B-U-B-S-N-A-T-U-R-A-L-S dot com and are on social media at Bubz Naturals. If you want to talk to me personally, you can reach me there. You can reach me at my Instagram, slako S-L-A-K-E-O. Anytime you write an email info at Bubz Naturals, you can just say hey, can you send this to Sean? We're not a corporate giant like. I love talking with folks and answering questions and helping out on all that stuff. I am literally one layer away. Come reach out to me and talk about what are you?

Speaker 3: 1:43:54

experiencing.

Speaker 2: 1:43:56

I'm sorry, and that's a big thing too. That's huge To be on that grassroots level like, hey, you know what, I'm not the guy that does the podcast, but then you've got to go through 80 layers. If you ever get in touch with me.

Speaker 3: 1:44:14

Info at BubzNaturalscom and they'll put you in touch with me or shit. I mean I'm Sean at BubzNaturalscom, s-e-a-n. So just hit me up if you have questions. But our social media is a big vehicle. That's how the kids talk these days. Yes, you have questions, but our social media is a big vehicle. That's how the kids talk these days at bubs naturals, our website, and it's how I take a ride. Kids. Yeah, I mean, you know, come check us out and you know, if you want to hear more about what I went through with glenn or share a personal story or just chat like, I'm here for it and I hope that we can get folks healthier. That's what I want. I want more folks living better, longer and I mean it. Man Die young as late as possible.

Speaker 2: 1:44:54

I know you mean it and I'm going to share a story with people as we try to start winding down that underscores how I know you mean it. There was another party that put Sean and I in touch with one another. Somebody contacted me and said, hey, I've got this guy you probably would be interested in talking to. And one thing led to another and we find out that we've got this mutual friend again, former Navy SEAL V Diamond, great guy, and so we scheduled a phone call to talk to one another and actually I guess we kind of we did a Zoom call, I think it was. So we're actually looking at one another and I can't tell you exactly how long we spoke probably 15, 20 minutes, I'm guessing.

Speaker 2: 1:45:46

Almost none of that time and I'm talking to you, the viewers, the listeners almost none of that time was spent talking about his product. He mentioned the product and that that was a project that he had going. You know what we talked about. That was a project that he had going. You know what we talked about. We talked about Glenn Doherty primarily, and then our mutual friend V Diamond, and we talked about Sean's upbringing and his snowboarding days. We talked about our personal lives.

Speaker 2: 1:46:28

So that's when I knew I came away from that and I look, this is a guy whose primary mission is still Glenn Doherty. Okay, everything, even if Sean I'm thinking to myself even if Sean doesn't realize it, still everything he does is woven through Glenn Doherty and I knew you were somebody who I was going to be honored and proud to have on as a guest and get your message out and talk about your product. And talk about your product, because the product, while you certainly we want to tell the world about your product. You're not a guy who just wants to shove a product in somebody's face. You're a people guy. You're a people person and you're about connections. And this whole thing came out of the incredibly close connection that you had with Glenn Doherty, your best friend, and I think that's a pretty cool thing about you that I knew you were a special guy after we had that talk.

Speaker 3: 1:47:43

Thanks, man. I appreciate that that's a lot to take in. I sincerely appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 1:47:49

You bet In closing, is there anything you want to add about either Glenn himself or the product, or both?

Speaker 3: 1:48:01

I know it can change your life and I know that it will If you, if you go to it, you try it, you, you, you get on the program and I'm here, our, our team is here to help with that. That. That part's a baseline, I think, for anyone who's curious about Benghazi and what happened. Not the outrage, necessarily, but maybe more the heroism, is what I like to think about. Yeah, um, like to think about, yeah, um, that movie, 13 hours, does a pretty good job. Like you know, like I'm friends with a couple of guys that they were survivors from that mission, um, I'm lucky to have to be able to call them friends and recount some of the stories around that, um, that's always something people can go and look at.

Speaker 3: 1:48:41

There's actually some really neat kind of youtube clips of glenn. Um, he, he was on the short-lived tv show after he got out of the service called the wanted and there's some like b-roll footage circulating where you can kind of get a feel for his personality and he's telling stories and it's out there. So it's a fox news clip and, like someone unearthed the b-roll, it was from like 2008, 2009 and it's just classic glenn and if you want to feel like you knew him. Watch that. It's like a five-minute video clip and you will be just immersed in Glennisms and the foundation. I think.

Speaker 3: 1:49:17

Go to glenndohertymemorialfoundationcom and. It's run by friends, family. It's a small, tight-knit group that we're all just love the man and love what he stood for and are there to celebrate that legacy and continue paying it forward. I think those would be the three things. Like yeah, come over to Bubz man, we're going to help you out. Go to Glenn's Foundation, learn what they do. I think it's inspiring and special and get to know the man. And between the movie and the YouTube clip, you're going to get to know the man. And, um, you know, between the movie and a and the YouTube clip you're going to, you're going to get some good entertainment there. Um, he was a. He was a fricking character. So, thank you. Thank you for having me on and and having the opportunity to talk about that journey.

Speaker 2: 1:49:59

Thank you and, as a veteran myself, um, while I did not know Glenn personally, as you know, I'm good friends with somebody who did, and now I know two people who did. So I had a pretty good idea, before I even met you, how special this guy was, and so I really tip my hat to you for what you are doing to honor a guy that, let's face it, among all the other things, he's a United States veteran, you know, a Navy veteran. He served his country honorably and put it all out there, and you are helping carry his name on in a way that I can only imagine has him smiling ear to ear. So I want to thank you, sean, for what you're doing, for coming on, and I can foresee a time down the road where maybe we get back together again and who knows what we'll talk about, but I really enjoyed this episode and getting to spend time with you.

Speaker 3: 1:51:12

Yeah, Hands down, man. I look forward to it. Well, in the more immediate future, I look forward to you texting me in a month from now telling me that your fingernails are growing Like you're the Wolverine Cause you started a collagen routine.

Speaker 2: 1:51:22

I'll tell you, dude, I'm climbing trees out in my backyard. Hey, it's been my pleasure and we'll talk again soon. Likewise, man, thank you again. All right, bye-bye.

Speaker 2: 1:51:39

Wow, if this didn't move you, I would suggest checking your pulse. Who among us would not want to have a friend like Sean Lake, somebody who is there with us through thick and thin and who, if they were to survive us, would do something like this to make sure that we were never forgotten? You know as much as Sean Lake put into the development of this company and this product. I just found it, I don't know, just a good vibe that Sean Lake never really makes it about the product. He makes it about Glenn Doherty, and the product is a vehicle, if you will, to remember Glenn Doherty and to give back to people like Glenn Doherty, and I just think that's really cool. Remember, you can go to bubsnaturalscom, bubsnaturalscom.

Speaker 2: 1:52:57

I do personally take the collagen from bubsnaturalscom. I'm 58 years old and I want to keep my skin looking as healthy as possible for as long as possible, and I know the science behind collagen and that's why I take it. This is Jack Hopkins. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Jack Hopkins Show podcast and I'll see you next time.