Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Jack Hopkins Show podcast, where stories about the power of focus and resilience are revealed by the people who live those stories and now the host of the Jack Hopkins Show podcast, jack Hopkins.

Speaker 2: 0:20

All right. So, dane, the first thing that I noticed about you is that you were a swimmer, and that stood out for me because my oldest daughter was a swimmer. Oh, okay. And she had the opportunity when she was like, I think, 10, 11 years old. We lived in Springfield, Missouri at the time.

Speaker 3: 0:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 0:43

And the college. There they had a really outstanding swimming coach, a college swimming coach. It just so happened that the kids' swimming team in the evening he was also the head coach for them, which was really you know, when you consider the time they put in with their college kids really an outstanding thing. So I got exposed to the swimming world, uh, through my I. I knew nothing about it at all. Right, yeah, we just here's something that she might like to try and turn out. She was a pretty good little swimmer. So I I bring this up because I know swimming is is a different thing. Swimming is well. First, I guess let me ask were you a distance swimmer or a sprint swimmer?

Speaker 3: 1:36

well, that's. What's funny is, I started off I was a sprint swimmer and, uh, on the last meet of the first year that I swam in high school, we were were going to swim a team that wasn't very good, so we swam off events so that we wouldn't kill them by too much and I had never swam more than 100. And they put me in the 500, and I was like what are you doing? And I came like six seconds from breaking the school record and my coach says, guess? What You're swimming next year.

Speaker 3: 2:08

And I was like no.

Speaker 2: 2:14

So I kind of did both sprints and distance, which was definitely odd. Yeah, that's really interesting. And which of those two did you feel like you were most suited to?

Speaker 3: 2:27

I was definitely suited for distance. Um, I was decent at sprints, but I I didn't have a very good start and I didn't have a very good turn. And so when, when you're swimming a 50, it's like 75 start and turn and I would just muscle through the rest of it. Um right, my coach said if I had had, we swam in a 25 meter pool, which was pretty rare around our parts. Most people had yard pools. Um, he said, if we had actually had an olympic size pool, I would have been so much better, simply because I would have had nine less flip turns to mess up on is what he is what he said and that that really is like you.

Speaker 2: 3:01

that's a huge factor. Yeah, certainly so. You go from being a swimmer in high school Now. Did you play football in high school as well? I?

Speaker 3: 3:13

did I played. I was a wide receiver in high school, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:19

Okay, that's the position I played as well. Okay, that's the position I played as well.

Speaker 3: 3:30

Okay, so you graduate high school and I see that you went to penn state and and attempted to walk on as a football, yeah, and I made it to the, to the final cut of the of the walk-on tryouts, uh, before I got cut, um, which was pretty impressive, because it's funny when you're when, when you're young, well, I mean impressive considering that I, uh, am not that talented, it's what is what I mean to say is because because when you're young, you're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna make college and then I'm gonna make the pros and all that and and I it's so funny, looking back, I did not have the talent to even get as far as I did get. I just happen to be. I'm really good at catching balls, uh. And one during the tryout, uh, the walk on tryout coach was, uh, larry johnson, senior.

Speaker 3: 4:15

If you remember larry johnson, he played for the chiefs and yeah, he was at penn state, um and I you know I'm not that fast and I'm not, you know, I'm not physically imposing, but I could catch everything. At one point they were throwing balls and they were really off and I thought how bad are these quarterbacks, because I'm like having to do these acrobatic catches. At one point Larry Johnson said can you just drop a damn ball so that I can cut you? It's going to be so much easier. Yeah, needless to say, I didn't make it any. I didn't make it to the final cutout. But when I was um, walking out of the tryouts, uh, the rugby coach had widely wisely positioned himself there and was like, hey, you want to try out for rugby.

Speaker 2: 4:55

I was like, yeah, sure, no idea what it was so sure that's how that related to and if you were to, um, because I've I've watched, uh, on television, I've watched a handful of rugby games don't don't know anything about it to speak of. If you were to talk of where the overlap between football as we know it and rugby, where, where is that overlap?

Speaker 3: 5:21

I mean, rugby is more soccer than it is football. Um, and you, there's actually a lot of interesting habits that you have to get rid of in football in order to be a good rugby player, like trying to gain that extra yard or something like that. In football you're like keep, you know, you want to stay as close as you can to your teammates as possible, because there are no downs in rugby. You know, as soon as, as soon as you're tackled, that next place starts again. So you want your teammates there to kind of create like a line of scrimmage. And so, um, we had an incredible team at penn state. I was b squad at best it was. We were runners up both year, a national champion of both years that I was there.

Speaker 3: 6:04

Um, and we were just a club team, so we were playing against fully scholarship teams, um, like out of cal berkeley and stuff like that. We had a couple of us eagles on penn state's team, which is the national team for america, so we had college kids that were national players, and so I have no delusions of grandeur of where I fell on. The squad I was was, you know, tackle fodder. Basically is all that I was, but I got to be around excellence, which was really, really fun.

Speaker 2: 6:32

Right, right, yeah, I know what you mean. It's interesting. I grew up in a town of about 6,000 people, right, I did A little 2A high school, right, was that in Missouri or where was that? Yeah, yes, in in in trenton, missouri, okay, all right, 90 miles northeast of kansas city and and, uh, about an hour west of kirksville, missouri, if you know that is. And my senior year, I, I tied the the uh high school record for the back then 440, right, right, and ran like a 50 flat. Now, that's a respectable quarter, right, sure, absolutely. But you go to state, and if you weren't running sub 48, you weren't going to place no, sub 48, uh, you know, weren't going to place no, so, no, so you go from that small town. I'm a stud to the big time. I'm a dud.

Speaker 3: 7:33

Well, that's the way it is with the sports that have a clunk. You know other sports you can kind of delude yourself, like in basketball, oh, if we ran the triangle offense, that would have been more suited towards me or other things. But swimming, running, triathlon, if you don't run or swim x amount of time, you're not, you're not cut for it, and that's that's what I love those sports is. Because there's, you know, it's cut and dry. Did you run a sub 48, 4 440? No, well then you're not making state, you?

Speaker 3: 8:04

know, that's the end of the story, right Simple as that Cut and ride.

Speaker 2: 8:09

So when we look at football versus rugby, then am I correct in assuming that there's less time to rest between plays for the most part?

Speaker 3: 8:22

Yeah, rugby doesn't stop moving. It's a lot like soccer, you know, and it is. And now there's granted, there's a little bit of a downtime when they have like the scrum, which is kind of like like a huddle and football. But you're not, there's not downtime, and so, yeah it's, you're constantly moving and all the players kind of have to play, play all positions at the same time to some extent. You know your linemen type guys in rugby, they don't just get to be linemen, they'll handle the ball as well, and so it's really diverse.

Speaker 2: 8:56

So the reason I asked that is because we know where we're going with this conversation and how it culminates, at least physically Right going with this conversation and how it culminates, at least physically right. For that reason, then, was rugby maybe more of a custom fit for you because of the endurance element of it, as opposed to just short bursts of explosiveness and then in, in eyesight, probably, I mean because I don't have that top end speed, but I I can run for a very long period of time.

Speaker 3: 9:28

And so, yeah, with rugby, if I was suited to a sport better, it was probably rugby.

Speaker 2: 9:34

Simply because of the continual motion, like I might, my, my clock is not gonna or not my clock, but my, my energy is not going to drain down sure, and and would I be correct in assuming that even through throughout football and and rugby through those years, that at least in your off time you were doing some running, as little as possible.

Speaker 3: 9:58

Uh, at the time I I mean, I ran in track in high school, but it was simply because I was bored in the spring and all my buddies were doing track, so it was like I'm going to go where they are. And we had, in my town, had 5,000 people. I was very similar to yours in northwestern Pennsylvania, but we had the Pennsylvania two mile state champion on my team and we had another kid who was not far behind him, so I ran a 450 mile and I was, at best, at best, fourth on the team. So you had some, we had, we had studs, and so I had.

Speaker 3: 10:39

I was like oh, I'm not fast, you know, I'm not even fast for a long distance, because I can't, I can't run that speed, and it's something that's stuck with me a long time. With regards to knowing where you are in the world, and some people think I have some arrogance or that I'm cocky, and it's like I just think I have a very accurate idea of where I stand in the world with basically everything. And when you have an idea of where you are, that breeds confidence, because you're like this is what I'm good at, you know. So it.

Speaker 2: 11:13

It really does, and it's interesting to hear you say that because it mirrors, I guess, kind of my own attitude about myself. I'm very clear on the very few things in life and I mean few that I'm good at, and I'm also equally as clear on the multitude of things that I suck at, right. I mean, I know so sometimes if I, if I, come across as uh, arrogant when talking about something I'm good at, it's really it's not that I think I'm superior necessarily to anybody in a particular way. It's just I know that that one thing I can do well, absolutely I can do well absolutely so.

Speaker 2: 12:03

If you can do it well, there's no sense beating yourself up when you talk about it, just right, so that you don't appear to be confident. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 12:14

I've always said that humility is an overrated, uh, type of of of attribute. Because why should you have a less than accurate idea of what you can do if you're if you're a good writer, you're a good writer if you're. If you're not. Like I can't dunk. I will never dunk in my life like I can't. I have no ability to jump and right, but knowing that doesn't lessen me. I just know what I'm good at. It's not not dunking.

Speaker 2: 12:43

Right, no, I get that. And I guess, when it comes back to your professional life, I mean, it's kind of hard to go out and get sponsors if you're not talking about what you can do. Oh, absolutely, yeah, I love when people say, oh, you're a self-promoter.

Speaker 3: 13:06

It's like yes, 100% Right.

Speaker 2: 13:09

Absolutely. I mean that's. I look at that on Twitter, for example, or social media. My goal on social media is to get my message in front of as many people who will wind up going oh, I'm glad I got that message. To do that. The more numbers you have, the more chances that absolutely of seeing it. So again it comes back to we'll talk about this more as we get into the uh ultra marathoning and type stuff where you started picking up promoters, because I I think that's an important thing to touch on for people maybe out there who haven't yet pursued something like this, but that might be someday. You are going to have to promote yourself in a positive and aggressive way, because nobody wants to sponsor somebody this time, man yeah, me and and it's not talking, absolutely sure, okay, so your first marathon, I believe.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Well, you go to law school. Let's talk about that. Was that something that throughout high school? Were you thinking about law school, or how did that come up?

Speaker 3: 14:26

yeah, the only thing I'd ever wanted to do in my life was to be a officer in the cia, and law school was was the means of which I had the best opportunity to do that. I I'm not a I'm not a military guy like I utmost respect. I don't have that in me to to to follow orders like that, so sure I wasn't going to be a police officer, so law school was one of the only ways to get in there. So law school was from an early age. It was law school. Cia, that was. That was the plan, okay got you.

Speaker 2: 14:59

So you're doing law school and we're not too far out, then I guess from your first it's a 12-hour run and it's the Presque, is that correct?

Speaker 3: 15:12

Presque Isle Presque.

Speaker 2: 15:13

Isle, yeah, and during classic, a 12-hour run where you ran 84 miles, yes, yeah. Now, for anybody listening, I want to say this the furthest distance I have ever ran in a race, and one time only, was the Honolulu Marathon. Just a tad over 26.2 miles.

Speaker 2: 15:40

Yeah, that was up to that point. I had done maybe one or two at most half marathon, but mostly I was kind of like a 10K and a 5K guy, right, and I was far from a professional at that, I just enjoyed competing, sure. So I run this Honolulu Marathon and I'm not even at the halfway point yet, right, and I hear this clump, clump, clump, clump, clump, clump Sounds like a horse behind me. I'm like why would there be a horse that's staying behind me like that? And it gets a little closer, it gets a little closer behind me like that, and it gets a little closer, it gets a little closer. And finally, in my peripheral vision, I I see it coming around me. Now, out of 32 000 people in the hollywood marathon, I think there were 14 or 15 000 who were japanese, who would come there.

Speaker 3: 16:38

Yeah, yeah, there definitely is a very high percentage of foreign runners yes.

Speaker 2: 16:42

So here comes this japanese dude in like a kimono and wooden clogs, passing me, and it's not two minutes later and again I'm a considerable distance from a halfway point, and coming my way, going back, are the top three kenyan runners. Sure you know why? The world class, world class. Um, I found out, between the, the wooden clog guy and the kenyans. Okay, this is a recreational thing for me, so I wanted to tell that story because I was.

Speaker 2: 17:33

I was as depleted as you know, as I ever been after that 26 miles, uh, in fact I remember it was about the 20 mile mark and to this I'm convinced, had this woman not have handed me a fistful of Jolly Ranchers, I wouldn't have made it. I always heard people talk about the wall. I don't think I had ever experienced anything remotely resembling the wall. That day I slammed into the wall about my money, right, and I I really took the candy only because I was trying to take, take my mind off of right. Pain, exhaustion, that's sure, and I get that in me, and about two minutes later I felt like I came back to life and I was able to finish right. So so we are talking about over three times further than what I ran the honolulu marathon in your first distance. Uh run, tell me, tell me how you go about training for something like that as compared to, say, a traditional marathon well, that's.

Speaker 3: 18:52

That's. The thing is, if of all the I don't want to get ahead of ourselves but of all the things that I've accomplished in the running world, that 12 hour race is probably the most impressive, given the totality of the circumstances, because I had never run a step over 26.2 miles when I did that 12-hour race. Wow, and I had no. So you say the training? There was no training I had. I had no idea I I was going to go out there and I was going to try to just plot along for 12 hours and just see what I could get. My off-handed goal was 50-something miles. I thought, okay, a marathon takes me three and change, I've got another eight and a half to go. Can I run another marathon over that? And I was like I'm going to stop, I'm going to walk, I'm going to do all of that. And I thought that was the highest that I was going to get.

Speaker 3: 19:47

And it ends up that the weather for that race was absolutely perfect for my particular skill set. It was cold and cloudy, a little bit of rainy and, as I've learned in 400, some odd races, since I don't run well in heat, I run when it's well. When it's cold, I do most runners, when they if they knew about it, because but that day was perfect in every, every mile that clicked by, because it was a one mile loop that you ran, and every mile I just was chugging away and I, honestly, I had no idea how well, uh, I was doing and it was a pure ignorance is bliss thing, because I, if I had known that there was, there's really no way I should have been able to do that. There's not only with my lack of training, I mean just utter lack of training, but also the fact that and again I don't want to step on any further, but I have, I have a genetic makeup that doesn't. I shouldn't be allowed to do that, and so yeah, go ahead and you.

Speaker 2: 20:53

You say that because that that was a question I wanted to ask you about.

Speaker 2: 20:58

I know, for example, I know that in the in the ufc uh a guy that that was really kind of dominant for a while, Randy Couture. He was a former collegiate wrestler and I know they did all kinds of testing on that he has this kind of freak genetic gift, if you will, that it takes like three times as long as it does for the average person for lactic acid buildup to reach a point of like, okay, done, Right, Right, which allowed him to outlast uh people, A lot of those uh holds in, say jujitsu, for example. Uh, you may have to hold somebody with your muscles contracted there for a long, long time and there's a point at which for a lot of people they can't any longer but he could keep going. So I was going to ask if you'd ever done any type of testing. I mean, it's safe to assume you've got more slow twitch muscle fiber than cash, for example, but that's kind of a given In terms of your VO2 max and things like that. Have you ever had any of that checked?

Speaker 3: 22:23

Yeah. So there's a friend of mine named Dean Karnasas. He's an ultra marathon runner, he kind of ushered in the sport to the masses and he is known for, very similar to Randy, his lactate threshold is through the roof. And so we became friends.

Speaker 3: 22:38

So I I was curious about all of my different variables and so I went, I had my vo2 max tested, I had the lactate tested and all the, all the benchmarks that you normally get tested, and I am decidedly meh in all of them, like, like they're, they show that I'm an athlete, you know, but there's no number that you look at that you're like oh, that's why, in fact, a few years after I did all the things that I'm best known for, I was in a bicycle accident and uh was at the er and a friend of mine was a doctor who looked at my blood levels and she says you, you have gilbert syndrome.

Speaker 3: 23:12

And I said well, what is that how? When did I get that? And she's you have gilbert syndrome. And I said well, what is that how? When did I get that? And she's like no, no, you, you're born with it and what it does is it makes it markedly difficult to recover from strenuous activity. I was like right, I was like so the one thing I'm known for is the one thing I shouldn't be able to do. So the one thing that the one test that came back in a way that had any sort of like major bearing is one that says, no, you shouldn't be able to do this like right and so it makes.

Speaker 3: 23:42

That's why the title of my last book was ignore the impossible. Because if you look at my vo2 max is okay, my lactate thresholds okay, I have gilbert syndrome, I have all these things that would be like there's no way you can do what you've done, like run 84 miles in 12 hours with no training. But I did it and so obviously there's something else that I haven't been tested for that allows me to succeed. Um, I'm I'm a big proponent of uh. I've never understood people who get too arrogant about virtually anything that they're given with regards to their body because I say it's dna like, even if you're like well, yeah, but I train really hard. But like, yeah, but you train really hard because you got good dna right, this whole idea that you can out train everything and I get it I was actually had a conversation this on facebook a while back I get that.

Speaker 3: 24:42

Extremely talented athletes don't want their hard work to be diminished. They want to be like no, I work hard, yeah, but also, your floor is most people's ceiling. Let's not pretend that if I just train harder, I'm going to make the Olympics in 100-meter dash. It's not that. But you do have to work hard, so I don't know what it is about me that allows me to. While I was able to run that 84 miles in 12 hours, people have done a lot more. I'm not saying that it's pretty high up there, but for someone that has zero training to do that sorry, zero training to do that. I broke the record for that course and no one has come within seven miles since then, and that was 21 years ago. So I I don't have any idea what happened there.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Well, a couple of and and I'm sure you've thought about this and talked with about this with fellow ultra marathoners a couple of things that come to my mind as likely possibilities. One, I'd say you are incredibly efficient at optimizing performance in terms of taking what you have and squeezing all that you can out of it in the most efficient way possible. Then the second part I I would have to assume that's where the the mental aspect of things comes into play. Now, yeah, are are either of those two things that you've thought about before?

Speaker 3: 26:16

yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel that, um, so I've I've run a fairly decently fast marathon and and I've done that while I was doing all different types of other races, and I've had friends that said, do you think that if you just focus on the marathon, you you could have run faster? I said yes, but I don't think much faster Not so much that it would have made any difference in the world for me trying to be a professional athlete. I think I have squeezed the living bejesus out of every little talent that I have and it's what it is. I ran a 249 marathon, which to some people is exceedingly fast, but at the same time it's nearly 50 minutes slower than the world record, which means like I was at mile like 17 when the guy finished the world record, and so that's what I love.

Speaker 3: 27:09

I know what this body can do more than most people do, because I've, I've, I've wrung everything out of it that I can and, yeah, I'm pretty decently strong in the head, like I can, because I know that's just a sport Like I don't like. If I don't finish this race or I don't do as well as I can, it's not like they're going to take my family away from me or something, and so it's just like run as hard as you can or do do what you can, and and push through. I I'm pretty good at disassociating um from pain, from from being tired, uh, and just and just push through. And so I, I tap dance on that red line of hitting the wall very well, I tap dance on that red line of hitting the wall very well, and I learned that a lot of people use their watches or all their mechanics. Now I did it prior to that, just by listening to my body, and so I'm really good at getting the best out of the minimal that I have.

Speaker 2: 28:12

You know, dane, I understand that. Now I don't know that this is how you go about it mentally. I don't know that this is how you get there, but I too am very good at dissociating right from pain and physical, and I didn't realize this for a long time, because usually all of this happens unconsciously. We don't know how we get those, of course, sure.

Speaker 2: 28:38

I finally figured out that when I develop, when I'm in that situation where it's beneficial to me to dissociate, there's kind of a chip on my shoulder attitude that that comes over. There's almost like a personality shift of uh, you can't stop me from this, okay, and and it it takes me physically, at least perceptually, to a different place where pain just doesn't apply. Does it right? Is that anything like what you're talking?

Speaker 3: 29:16

about. The thing is about long-distance running. Is you really listen to the pain and you're like, is this pain that's going to go away or is this pain that I can deal with? And if it's just pain I can deal with, if I didn't tear acl and it's just my quads are tired, well then I'll just ignore that you know like, and so it's just like shut up legs. You know like I'm just gonna keep going.

Speaker 2: 29:43

So yeah, it's something along those lines of just having mind over matter type stuff, right and I I think the the thing that jumps out about what you've been saying here that I think is really beneficial for anybody listening, whatever goal they may have. I know a lot of times in life people they'd like to do something, they'd like to write a book or run a marathon or any number of things, but the thought that comes to mind is well, I, I wouldn't be very good at that, probably, and without realizing it, usually the comparator they're using is somebody that's really good at it. Right, right, exactly. They're looking at king or an ann rice yeah, in their literary skill, and going well, I couldn't write like that. Well, there are some really well-selling books out there from people who can't write like that either. No, but they realize there's room for all kinds of levels.

Speaker 3: 30:48

Yeah, 100 I mean my, I'll read. I'll read like an article or or something on some. Like my God, that person can write so well. Like I'm such an amateur, but like if I were to, like, keep that from allowing me to write at all. I mean, there's multitudes, there's gray areas, there's the big, meaty part of the curve. You know, find your niche in there. And yeah, like I'm never going to be the best writer and my writing style is always very conversational. Everyone who reads my books says it sounds like they're just chatting with me at the time, and so that's what I'm good at.

Speaker 2: 31:24

Well, do it. You know, yes, yes and I hope people listening watching get this out of that segment that you don't have to be superior genetically, you don't have to be superior in any way to begin, and you may surprise yourself at how much better than you thought you were, that you wind up being, and it sounds like there was an element of that for you when you first started this path of ultra mararathoning that, like you said, you thought maybe you would top out 50 miles.

Speaker 3: 32:01

Yeah, virtually everything I mean. So I ran a 200-mile race. That was a relay, it was a 12-person relay but I ran it by myself. So I ran 202 straight miles and I had never, until that point, finished 100 mile race. And this was, um, this is 12 years ago already. Uh, those 200 mile races. Now I don't want to say they become commonplace, but they've actually. They're kind of a thing that a lot of normal people are doing now, and I like to think that I helped spearhead the movement to doing things that just seem completely impossible, and now people do them on on the regular almost, and so there's no way I would have ever thought that I could run for 50 straight hours, and now people do these six, six day races and 30 day races I'm not joking you like. There's a a race in new york city where they run 3100 miles around a city block. It takes them like all summer and it's it's insane what the human body can do. It's just incredible it is it is.

Speaker 2: 33:19

Is there an element of once you've, for example, uh, if, if I get up out of my chair in the living room and I go outside to check the mail, walk across the street to the mailbox, check the mail, I've done that so many times, right, I don't have to psych myself up for it, there's no question. It's just yeah, I'm gonna go get the mail, right. Is there an element of that? Even with a hundred miles, once you've done a hundred miles a few times, that there's that element of yeah, of course I, I'll finish it, I've done it before. There's there's an element of?

Speaker 3: 33:54

that, but the true I'll finish it. I've done it before. There's there's an element of that, but the true element is realizing. So I've run 165 marathons. Okay, and 165 marathons makes it easier for me to get to the finish line of the 166 marathon, but it doesn't guarantee it, and the reason I say that is last year I had my first ever dnf in a marathon. I was I. I didn't finish the race and you would think, oh, you've run 160. At the time it was 164. They're like you know. You would think you would and could I have finished the marathon? Yes, um, but it was not a goal for me to just crawl across the finish line. And as it ends up now I realize I tore my meniscus in my knee later last year, and so I think this was the beginning of it. But it was also an energy thing.

Speaker 3: 34:50

That day I was not good enough to finish in the time that I wanted to, and so I think, to answer your question, you can never underestimate the difficulty of a marathon, or a 50 miler or even a hundred miler does, is it takes away the allure of the impossibility of it, and so it's more along the lines of not only can people do this.

Speaker 3: 35:20

I can do this. Now the question is can I do it today? And so that's the big thing, that with everything, you can walk the mailbox. You know you can walk the mailbox, but but can you do it today? And that's where the unknown is is you don't know. Like every day is very, very different. Um, the amount of stuff that has to go in work for you in order for you to finish a one mile race, let alone a hundred mile race, the human body is so weird, like how we are, how, how we're designed to even function, is is to me, and so I guess the long answer to your question is it doesn't make me feel that it's going to be easy. It makes me think it's going to be easier now that I've done it a few times.

Speaker 2: 36:05

And I guess then, to kind of borrow from how you've answered, that I guess, like for me on the mailbox analogy, one of the variables would be okay if there's a 55-mile-an-hour headwind out there, can I do it then? Right, Right, so it depends on certain variables. Yes, in good conditions I can always walk to the mailbox and back, but if this, this and this, okay, I got you. Yeah, I got you. So, gear-wise, let me ask you I'm just personally curious about this Gear-wise, my thoughts are, when I think of ultramarathon or I think of somebody that's probably went the way of like Hoka shoes, you know, the thick-soled, really shock-absorbing shoes For you, is there much of a gear change between a traditional marathon and, say, a 100-miler or no?

Speaker 3: 37:07

Yeah, I mean, to some extent it depends on the 100-miler, because there could be 100-milers that are run on a road. Now, trail running and ultra running have kind of become synonymous lately, where if you're going to run very far, you're probably also going to run through wilderness. In the olden days, at the turn of the last century, the early 1900s, ultra running was done in front of huge crowds at, like Madison Square Garden, where two guys would run around a track for 24 hours, and so it's weird to think of it that most people think of ultra running as the same as trail running and they're not. So, to answer the question, it really depends on what particular race, because I've done races that that, uh, require a little bit better technical gear. Um, I I am not a big fan of the ultra marathons that require a lot of walking and using poles and almost like orienteering type races.

Speaker 3: 38:23

Hats off to the people that do those. That's not my jam. I like to run, I don't like to hype, and so there are some ultra marathons out there that are on a bucket list for some people, but I have no desire to do them because it requires thinking. I don't want to think, I don't want to have to pull out a compass and find out where I have to go. I want to get on a road or a trail and run as far as I can, as fast as I can, so I tend to skew more towards the races that have as little technical stuff as possible.

Speaker 2: 39:00

I, I just want to run, you bet nutritionally, do you approach it like a traditional uh marathon, but just more of it? For example, I would assume keeping your glycogen stores you know the glucose up is is important. Uh caloric, uh intake how do you approach that? The nutritional, both prior to, say, 100 miler and during? Well, that's.

Speaker 3: 39:28

That's a. That last part's a really good addition to your question. Um, because, not to repeat myself, but it really depends on the type of race, uh, what you're going to eat and what you're going to need to take in, but there is no magical elixir on race day. It is really the pre uh that you do like it, like like you said before the race, like there's, what did you eat for the previous four months before the race? That matters way more than what you're going to eat on race day. It's what have you been training yourself to do so that when you get there, you just need to fine-tune stuff? I have found personally that I don't process food very well when I'm running ultras. I prefer liquid. So I ran the entire coast of Oregon in a week, so it was 365 miles over seven days, and while I was running, basically my only fuel was Mountain Dew.

Speaker 3: 40:32

So I would just drink, yeah, yeah, because it was the Dew. So I would just drink, yeah, yeah, because it was the sugars. And then when we'd stop for the night, I would have like a literal meal, like I wasn't worrying about gels or any of that sugary stuff, I'd have like a hunk of steak and salad and so I'd get my protein and some roughage. But during the actual running there's so many pictures of me during this run that I did where I'm just holding a big one liter of mountain dew because my body processed liquid a lot better than it did solids yeah, and I I would guess that you know other ultra marathoners who couldn't do that.

Speaker 2: 41:09

In other words, if they, if they tried to mountain, do it all the way through it, it just wouldn't work for them, am I right?

Speaker 3: 41:16

yeah, absolutely. What's fun is, you know I'm a little divorced from the ultra world. I haven't run an ultra in a couple of years, partially because of covid and then uh, and then when I had the knee surgery, I've been out for about six months now. But, um, it's fun to watch as the sport evolves and more and more people get involved with it and you see the different ways that people do, everything from fueling to what they wear for clothing and all that. And so, yeah, it's crazy what people can digest and what they can't digest, based on and unfortunately it's usually a trial and error thing. And so you learn the hard way what you can and digest based on and unfortunately it's usually a trial and error thing and so you learn the hard way what you can and cannot take in when you see it on the other way out yes, absolutely, that's so fascinating.

Speaker 2: 42:07

So again we come back to this thing. And although you're, the testing that you have done didn't necessarily show it, there's still like this freakish genetic component to you that just allows you to to do things that other people at least choose not to do, because it just doesn't bring them to that level of proficiency that it it does with you, and I'm assuming that the mountain dew thing, that was kind of a trial and error too, right?

Speaker 3: 42:43

yeah, I don't even remember where that started. It might have been. It might have been, I mean, for the longest time. Um, they would serve like defizzed coke at aid stations of ultra marathons. So they would like let it get flat, and it was. It was that that sugary rush that you could get, because your body can absorb calories quicker from liquids than food, without the extra energy it takes to to to digest it. So it might have been just a happenstance where somebody had mountain dew and I took it and all of a sudden felt like superman or something like that.

Speaker 2: 43:19

So, um, yeah, it was just, and the defizzed aspect was just to prevent bloating more or less.

Speaker 3: 43:28

Yeah, it started with uh frank shorter in the 1970s. Uh, running, you know he. He did a lot of the defizzing and what's so funny to think about what trend centers and trail braziers they were. Because they didn't have water bottles back then they had, they would take. Do you remember the honey that would come in the shape of a bear? Do you remember that bottle that would there was they would use? That was their sports drink bottle we have a bottle of that that's great.

Speaker 3: 43:57

So that was their water bottle, with these like honey bears that they had, and I don't know if they fully cleaned them out. If there was still a little bit of honey in there, they helped with the sugar or what I don't know. It's just uh, it's funny to see how far we've come in such a short period of time fascinating it's oh yeah, and it's funny to hear you say frank shorter I.

Speaker 2: 44:18

That uh instantly brought back, you know, bill rogers, of course, who was the big boston marathon king for uh so long. Yeah, I think, um shorter, he ran in the 76 olympics, I believe, didn't he Correct? Yes, yeah, so let's kind of climb the ladder. Now let's talk about some of the things that you've done with the ultramarathoning, in terms of where you decided to take that, some of the concepts that you had for, okay, let's do this, and then maybe we can have some people sponsor us so that it's feasible to do this, and then maybe we can have some people sponsor us so that it's feasible to do this. Tell me about some of those things well, it was very you know happenstance.

Speaker 3: 45:07

So you know I I I'm best known for running 52 marathons in 52 consecutive weekends, and even when I did that, I didn't think that running was going to be a huge part of my life. I was still interviewing to be in the CIA when I was doing that, and when I didn't get into the CIA I was like, well, what am I going to do? And running kind of just fell in my lap. And for this one company, the last company that I worked for, I was doing public speaking for them to promote their races and I didn't know that that was going to become my life as well, which is just kind of crazy.

Speaker 3: 45:46

So a lot of the stuff that I've done has people say, oh, you're so brave to branch out from the corporate world and start your own. And it wasn't bravery as much as that's what happened, and I wanted to see what I could do with it and try to. I learned that I was never going to be an Olympian athlete. I didn't have that skillset, but I could do things that other people couldn't, and so I wanted to utilize that to try to make a difference in the world and try to. Uh, I raised a lot of money for charity. That was one way. And then, when the opportunity came for me to be an advocate and and like in some capacity for for politics and and that I I wanted to use the name that I had created to do that, because if you don't, if you've got a voice and you and people are listening and you don't do something good with it, what's the point of it? It was kind of what I thought.

Speaker 3: 46:39

Yes, yes, in terms of sponsors, when you would go talk to a potential sponsor, kind of what was your elevator speech, so to speak, in terms of, okay, here's what I do, here's what I'll do with it, and here's what I do here, what I'll do with it and here's what you get well, it was, you know, I, when I did the 52 marathons, it was right when marathoning was really really taking off again and the average runner didn't know a lot of the elite athletes, but they knew characters like myself, or I had a story that could be presented to them, because the average runner didn't know the difference between a two hour marathon and a three hour marathon.

Speaker 3: 47:31

They were both times that were completely unreachable to them. So what I presented was a story of a guy whether you've run a marathon or a mile, or even if you know a marathon is 26.2 miles or not, you know what running one of them every single weekend for an entire year kind of is like, and that reached out to the masses. And so I said, hey, I have this story that is very packageable to people to say hey, look, I'm not, I'm not an extremely talented person, I I don't have any sponsors, I'm doing this all on my own. Look what I can do. This is something that more people will connect with than, like you said, the Kenyan runner who is God-blessed to be the most amazingly talented athlete and I'm fortunate to be blessed with the gift of gab a little bit as well, so I can not only do the activity, I can then relate it to people, because that's important. I know lots of amazing athletes who are God bless them boring as hell. They're not good at selling themselves at all.

Speaker 2: 48:44

So Right, and in so many areas. Well, let's focus on sports, for example. If you look at your real superstars in any particular sport and again I will just come back, since I already mentioned Randy Couture let's look at the UFC, the big name. It wasn't just that they won a lot of fights, they had a big personality and were able to communicate exquisitely after the fight. Right, they had the ability to make themselves their own brand. And if you can't do that, it's a situation where just being a superb fighter isn't going to propel you to superstar level, because you've got to have both. So, yeah, the ability to speak and to communicate ideas effectively, and then, in your your case, to also write it. You know that that's a big piece of of the whole thing, and I can only imagine that was very useful when you were seeking sponsors.

Speaker 3: 49:53

Yeah, I mean it was. What's interesting is my speaking career took off because of my writing career and what was interesting was how many people would hire a speaker to speak because they had written books. And I never understood that corollary, because there are plenty of great writers that are not good speakers, plenty of great writers that are not good speakers. And but there was I can't count how many times that I got a gig as a speaker because I had written books and the book would get me the gig. That paid me 10 times more than I ever made selling my books, but I wouldn't have gotten the gig if I didn't have the book. So is this a kind of convoluted?

Speaker 2: 50:36

way it is the most important and effective business card someone can have. People lose business cards. People don't tend to throw away books. You know you send a book in with your contract. Like you said, if you've got five speaker packages on the desk in front of you and only one has a book by that person, pretty good chance, the guy with the book, or gal, is going to get the gig, and that's just the hard truth of that. So yeah, and and I think it was a way I had to- differentiate myself because I I knew that I wasn't.

Speaker 3: 51:19

Uh, I knew I and I myself because I knew that I wasn't an Olympian. But I was like this is what I've done, and you can choose to be impressed with it or you cannot, but it still exists. What it is, this is what I've done and that's what I tried to put out out. There was like this is what I've done right and and and the book does.

Speaker 2: 51:40

Something else is very important. When somebody accomplishes something let's say somebody sets a world record or does some you know, fantastic accomplishment in the world of of sports or business or anything else those things exit the mind of people pretty quick because they're replaced by other things that other people are doing right. A book has that way of reminding people on a periodic basis of that thing you did, whether it's the book they see on the shelf or on the coffee table, or maybe they pick it back up to read or somebody mentions it. It's like, yeah, that's that guy that did whatever, whereas otherwise they may have forgotten it completely. So yeah, very yeah. That's funny because how much after I did the 52 marathons.

Speaker 3: 52:36

I did a few other feats that I thought possibly were more impressive, and I kind of got a little bummed at first, because people were always introducing me as the 52 marathon guy and I used to think, oh man, I'm always going to be the 52 marathon guy. And then I realized, well wait, I'm always going to be the 52 marathon guy. They can never take that away from me, and that resonates in people's minds more than a 202 miler or running the coast of oregon, because those all fall into that lofty area of people. They can't understand 200 miles, they can't understand 26 miles, they're not gonna understand 200. But 52 marathons, it, it rings a bell and it's so.

Speaker 3: 53:18

It's something that I'm very proud that I was able to do, and I I set out very specific parameters that I had to accomplish it. I couldn't. I couldn't make up a race, I couldn't run one. You know that wasn't actually a marathon if in the 50th week of the year, my race got canceled when the whole year was over and so it was sticking to those parameters and not making any sort of allowances. I think that's why it stuck with people was because people have done similar things since then, but there were always these built-in caveats. They ran one on a treadmill because it was too snowy, or things of that nature. You don't get to choose that in life. You have to show up on the day of the event and perform that day. I think that's why I matter, 18 years after I did the 52 marathons.

Speaker 2: 54:13

Yeah, like you said, I assume this is still the case where people still connect you to the 52 Marathons guy.

Speaker 3: 54:22

It helps. I look just as old now as I did back when I was 30. So I look the same, you know.

Speaker 2: 54:29

Yeah, that's a big plus, right? No, I mean, yeah, when I asked you earlier before, uh, before we started the recording, or maybe it was on the episode, I don't remember, but I asked you your age and you said you were, uh, I think, 48. Um, you could have given me a, a age considerably younger than that, and it it wouldn't have raised the red flag, I'd been like, oh okay, yeah, I can see that. So, yeah, you, you don't look like the average guy about to turn 50, for sure, you know. And if I were to remove my hat right now, you'd see that you've still got something going on on top that I ceased having long ago. So that helps as well.

Speaker 3: 55:14

The hair helps. It's super thick and it's never going to go anywhere. Everyone who's ever passed away in my family had a full head of hair, so this is going to be here for a while. Fortunately, that's a good perk.

Speaker 2: 55:25

Yeah, that's a good perk. I've got more I want to ask you about, but let's make sure people have at least a couple of chances to find out where to find you, how to contact you, all of that kind of stuff well, the best place.

Speaker 3: 55:42

If I have a website called c dane run, like c spot run, that's, that's a good jumping off point. Um, with a name like dane roushenberg, I'm pretty googleable. Uh, if there is another dane roushenberg on the planet, I feel bad for him because he has zero internet presence. Um, but, uh, where you know, the one thing I'm really excited about right now is I'm I'm releasing an app soon called sherpa and it's kind of. It's an on-demand app that connects athletes with their own personalized guide, so it's kind of like uber, but for runners. So if I were to come to to missouri and I wanted to go for a run and I didn't know where to go, I basically I booked like a concierge that will take me out for a run so you can safely exercise anywhere, which is a huge thing, obviously, for all people, but definitely females, and so, uh, that's the thing I've been working on in some capacity for the past 10 years.

Speaker 3: 56:40

But yeah, the website's gowithsherpacom, so we're excited about it, gowithsherpacom.

Speaker 2: 56:47

Yeah, that's boy, you know, discover the need and then fill it, and that's certainly a need out there. And that's certainly a need out there. You know, unfortunately, at this juncture we find, and not just women, but we find ourselves thinking more and more about public safety because, at least perceptually, it seems like it's a more dangerous atmosphere right now, if even just politically right.

Speaker 3: 57:23

Yeah, I mean all the statistics show that we're a much, much, much safer country than we've ever been, but we're more aware of the stuff that goes bad, you know. So it seems like it's worse, and so perception is reality. Reality, as we've come to learn so that's what we're trying to do is we can't make the world safer and we can't change people's minds. So we're going to try to provide you with the opportunity to have no excuses when it comes to exercise, because now you'll have somebody who will be there to safely get you through it.

Speaker 2: 58:00

I'm glad you brought that up, because I think it's Steven Pinker that had written fairly extensively about this that statistically, we are safer now than we've ever been right in terms of acts of violence, than we've ever been right in terms of acts of violence. And that's why, when I was making the statement, I said perceptually. Because here's the thing Perceptions shape our reality. So the fact that statistically there may be less violence isn't going to do much for the woman who wants to go run but is afraid because of her perceptions. So percent the perceptions can almost be more limiting than reality itself 100.

Speaker 3: 58:52

I couldn't agree more, which is, like I said, like, so what? The app has a lot of, uh, safety features built in that we don't want to minimize that. They're there, but we don't want to talk about them because we would. We want you to think about exercising and not have to think about being safe.

Speaker 3: 59:12

Um, and people say, oh, it's a little frightening to go run with a stranger. I said, is it any less frightening than getting into a stranger's car with, like, uber? I mean, that was the thing we were told to never do when we were growing up, and so we're open to eliminate that fear and allow people to to exercise when and where they want. There's already enough things that keep us from staying in shape as it is. We don't want fear to be the one that stops people, and so we're uh, we're going to try to you know't want fear to be the one that stops people, and so we're going to try to. You know, we're going to be nationwide and eventually worldwide. Anywhere you go, there's going to be a Sherpa there to take you out on your exercise. So that's something I'm really excited about.

Speaker 2: 59:50

Brilliant idea. Oh, thank you. Oh yeah, yeah, and I like how you are always thinking in terms of how you can move themselves in a particular area to just reap the rewards of that. Right, it's like I do this and bring it to me. I like that you are bringing things to other people. This app, I mean, that's almost other people exclusively, right. I mean, we've seen what can happen with apps, right. An app that catches on in just a matter of two months can be on the phones of hundreds of thousands of people. So that one idea of yours about how to increase safety and allow people to do something they want to do and feel safe in doing it wow, the potential for that. So it sounds like you're a pretty good business guy as well, right.

Speaker 3: 1:01:23

Well, I throw a lot of stuff against the wall and like what was it? Edison said he found a thousand different ways to not make a light bulb. You know, that's kind of what I've done with my career is, people often say how do you write a book, how do you start a speaking career? And how do you write a book, how do you start a speaking career and how do you meld all these things together? And I've jokingly said okay, we'll first run 52 marathons a year and then it's easy. After that everything else just falls into place.

Speaker 2: 1:01:51

I mean, that's not true, but my.

Speaker 3: 1:01:55

My dad once said that when, when things started coming together for me after I'd been working on this for a long time, he said you're just a 15-year overnight success story, aren't you? And I said yeah, that's it. It just took me a decade and a half to get here, that's all I've always, and it's a story I've told myself.

Speaker 2: 1:02:19

But it's not completely fiction, because I generated this story based on the experience that I've had in life. But I've always been a really late bloomer, right educationally, just every phase of my life, when everybody else was passing me by and I'm like man, why can't I get this to work, why isn't this going for me? And so many times, just through hanging on, just through persistence, I'll hit a, a track where, okay, now, uh, not only have I caught up with my peers, but in some cases maybe I I've surpassed. So for me, the thing is just hang on right, just don't quit, which I think is probably a big theme of yours right, just don't quit.

Speaker 3: 1:03:15

I mean that's if you want to really loop it all together, that's, that's a, that's a marathon for you. Just don't quit, like if the finish line's going to be there for you, that they'll hold it open for you know, eight, nine, ten hours.

Speaker 3: 1:03:28

Just just keep moving forward and and I also say that stopping is not quitting as well. Stopping is just pausing. Quitting is completely different. There's nothing wrong with. A. Lot of runners do never want to have a DNF, they never want to have a do not finish. And I said it's fine, no one cares. I had a friend who was getting ready for a Zoom call one time and she says how's my hair, How's my this? I go no one's looking at you, they're looking at themselves Like they don't care. It's the same thing with most of the stuff we do on a daily basis no one cares. No one cares that you didn't finish that race. No one cares. You didn't finish that book, Like, just so, just as long as you don't fully quit, the world can be yours. Are you still with me? I'm there.

Speaker 2: 1:04:22

Can you hear me? Okay, I can now. We had a little interruption there, but it looks like we're back online. Okay, great, I know you've written books, right, and we can talk about those books. But I want to kind of go in reverse order, because you told me, if you, if you don't want to, about just let me know. I know you have a new book that you are working on and it will be coming out. It's it's um, it's kind of an emotional thing for you. Uh, it's honoring somebody, and I'm assuming that it's who it's honoring. That makes it as emotional as it is. Can can you speak to that sure?

Speaker 3: 1:05:07

absolutely so. Um, my mother uh passed away. I can't believe. It's almost been two years now. It was october of 2022.

Speaker 3: 1:05:15

Uh, she had had heart problems her entire life.

Speaker 3: 1:05:18

Uh, she had rheumatic fever when she was a child that scarred her heart and was so bad she was bedridden for two or three years of her first, like eight years of life and, um, they actually read her her last rites when she was eight years old, like the priest came in and did the whole thing because they thought that she was gone and she lived another 65 years.

Speaker 3: 1:05:45

And so she, um, when she passed away, I, I was tasked with, uh, cleaning out her house, which, um, she was a bit of a hoarder, and by bit of a hoarder I mean world champion, eight times over hoarder, and, uh, she kept virtually everything, and I found that she had kept every postcard I had ever sent her in my life, and so I am writing a book that is telling her story through all the postcards that I sent her for the past 35 years, and so, um, it's gonna be called postcards to my mom, and it's gonna be telling the story of a woman who, on the surface, was not particularly interesting. By that I mean she didn't travel much. She didn't, she was unable to go to places, but, um, she was a, a stellar woman that I think that everyone will be able to find their own parents in her details, and so it'll be something that'll make everybody, uh, think fondly of their, of someone close to them in their life.

Speaker 2: 1:06:58

And have you found the act of writing about this, writing this book, a cathartic experience for you.

Speaker 3: 1:07:08

It was both cathartic and very challenging.

Speaker 3: 1:07:11

My family is close without being close.

Speaker 3: 1:07:14

We don't share a lot of feelings or emotions really close, we don't share a lot of, like you know, feelings or emotions really and in cleaning out her house and, um, my, her younger sister, my aunt, was very integral in helping me do this.

Speaker 3: 1:07:28

She lived one mile away from my mother and, um, I have learned more about my aunt and my mother and my family in the past year than I did the previous 47 years before that, and so it's challenging because I really wanted to make a success for myself so that I could make what I thought was going to be the next 10 to 15 years of my mother's life a lot easier than the previous 70 had been. And just when I finally started, uh, being relatively successful, um was when she got ill and passed away, and so it's bittersweet that I finally was able to do the thing that I wanted to be able to do, and now, now, now I don't have that. So it really drives home the point that I try to tell people, which is to really cherish each day and don't put off for tomorrow what you would be happy dying having not done. Oh, boy.

Speaker 2: 1:08:34

Do I understand that by just about the time things really started to take off for me on social media, right, and I started to you know the podcast and the interesting people like yourself that I get to talk to my mother had a really major stroke. Right, she's still alive, but to be and I can communicate with her. She knows who I am, but there's not much of a conversation there and so it's not that I can show her things or or tell her things that are happening and have her really grasp it right and and and feel proud of you. You know what I mean. So that's tough, uh, from time to time I think of, I think man, I I'd love to be able to. Now, fortunately, my, my father is still alive. He's 82 years old and so I I share things with with him. But but, yeah, I get it, I get it. They're um he, because you know, mom was always there. Mom was right, the one that you could just see it in her eyes. I'm proud of my son, right yeah, yeah, it's, it's.

Speaker 3: 1:09:50

That's why I thought the book would be helpful, not only for me, but for for other people, because we've all had a mother, you know, and, um, maybe some of us aren't as close to our, as our parents, as we could be because of maybe they weren't good parents, you know, but people have always everyone's had a mother figure in their life, even if it wasn't their actual mother. Yes, and so I think writing this book for a woman who was my I think my mom will be an excellent placeholder for other people, because she was so generically bland. To some extent, anyone can see their own loved ones in her. She was this vessel that that allowed, uh, other people to do, uh, to see what their own family members in her.

Speaker 3: 1:10:41

You know, sounds like I'm being, I'm being rude about my mother, and that's not the case at all. Uh, but she was. She was limited, you know, and what she was able to do because of not only her own health problems, but my father was crippled in a hunting accident right before I was born, and so she was a caretaker for him until he passed away 12 years ago, so she couldn't go out and enjoy the world because she was basically taking care of my dad, and so there's so many aspects of this book that I never thought about writing it until I was writing it, and then I thought oh my god, these are really going to reach out to so many people, no matter what their circumstances are, and I I hope that does that.

Speaker 2: 1:11:21

Oh, yeah, and I, as it would almost have to have happened. I'm sure you've discovered more about yourself as well just in, and that's the beautiful thing about writing, that's what I like about writing. I see writing as a way of organizing my thoughts. You know, I I can get what's inside of me together in a more organized fashion so that when I'm done I go back through it. I I actually understand my own thought process better than before. I wrote whatever I had written yeah, absolutely, it's it.

Speaker 3: 1:11:59

I've learned a lot about myself in the time that you know, um that I wish I had learned before you know. I wish we all. I want to be, I wish.

Speaker 2: 1:12:09

I could have got Run this Place 52 Run Races in North America. We've got Running with the Girls, we've got Women and Running in my first 100 marathons and there are a couple of more. Is there a particular book of those that you'd like to talk about that you can highlight some of what kind of the overall message in that book is?

Speaker 3: 1:12:49

You know, all of my books, even though they're running centric, are because, you know, I didn't grow up a runner. They're not 100% about running. And so I point towards Ignore the Impossible, which is my most recent book, because it is kind of a culmination of all that I've done in the running world, in the business world, in all the things that I've tried to do. That, I think, really speaks to the most people. People who have are not runners read some of my running books and realize, well, they've said that they were initially weren't going to read them because they weren't a runner. And then they read it and realize it's not a running book. It just happens to have running as a, as a focus.

Speaker 3: 1:13:32

And so I said, well, I took the best of what all those people said and I put it into ignore the impossible, because it it's a lot of life lessons and all the things that people have asked me about how I've been able to do what I've done and it and it. It's the motivational book for people who hate motivational books, because I'm not a rah-rah, c'est ce pour moi kind of guy and uh, I, I kind of speak things differently when people like, oh, you can do anything you put your mind to, I'm like, no, you can't. There's a lot of stuff you can't do and that's okay. You know, like find what you're good at and do that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:06

When you speak and I know you do motivational speaking do you find at this juncture, since that is your most recent book Ignore the Impossible is a lot of what you talk about come from that book or do you just pull from all of them when you are, it's mostly the last book simply because the last book already pulled from all of them.

Speaker 3: 1:14:31

So I kind of use that book and as as the impetus. And it's weird because I get a lot of pushback, because people are expecting you to come in and tell, tell them that they're special and that that they can do anything that they want. And I say I don't know if you're special, I said but the only way you're going to find out is if you go and act as if you are special and keep chipping away, never quit. Like we said, it's okay to stop, just don't ever quit, right?

Speaker 2: 1:14:59

I. I agree with you on on so of your philosophy. I remember one time I was talking to all three of our kids, right, and they all take part in different sports. I can't remember the context of why the conversation came up, but we were talking sports and practice and a recent performance, and we were all at the dinner table and I said to them and I wasn't talking down to them, I was just being a matter of fact I said, look, there is no one sitting at this table that has gifted DNA. Nobody here is going to have somebody banging on the door saying we want to talk to you, we want to look at you. Right, you can be good, but whatever level of good you get to, it's going to be largely because of how hard you work, not because because you just don't have that gift. That the people that are at the peak of whatever sport you made and my wife I could see and she kind of knew my approach to things. I was cool with it, but it was almost like shell-shocked, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:16:18

Sure, yeah, what are you doing? These are your kids.

Speaker 2: 1:16:26

You know, and it is sure yeah, what are you doing? These are your kids. I. I'm so much in fact, I've said the same thing before, which is why it resonated when, when you said it, uh, the idea you can do anything you want to, again, no, you can't. There are, there are things that I'll never be able to do, no matter what, no matter what type of coaching or training, that the genetics are not there, right, right. So I think when people start from there, I think it's a plus for somebody, 100%, it's not a negative.

Speaker 3: 1:16:58

It's so funny. You made a metaphor that I used in a speech one time. I said very few people are going to be banging on your door, so go kick theirs down. That's what I've said right that's get noticed. You know, like you can you always hear these stories of like people walking down the street and a model agency found them like. Oh my god, I want to cast you in a role that happens one in a billion times. You know you're not that person, so go kick that model the caster's door down.

Speaker 3: 1:17:27

You know that's what you need to do sure when, when you do your motivational speaking, is it largely the corporate world it's, it's everything, but it's been more corporate lately, um, but I've I've talked to the hardest speeches I've ever given elementary school kids, because they are, they are ruthless with their, not what they say, you know, necessarily, but like, if they're paying it, if they don't want to pay attention, their eyes are going to be over here and all that you know. The corporate world will continue to stare at you while they zone out. You know what I mean. But kids, they're the best and I, um, I gave a speech one time to the last one room schoolhouse in minnesota and it was seven kids and, uh, there was when I was passing through.

Speaker 3: 1:18:22

It's a much longer story I won't bore you with. But the day that I could do it, the teacher said can you do it the next day? And I said I won't be in town why? And they said well, the johansons are gone and I was like I don't know what that means. Is that code? They're like no, the johansons are half of our school. There's like five or six brothers and sisters. It went from like seven to twelve and so, um, I gave, so I spoke to, I think they went from third grade to ninth grade, so I've got to talk to like seven kids that are going from, you know, 10 years old on up and talk about a tough crowd because you've got to be able to speak to all those life experiences. But yeah, mostly corporate.

Speaker 2: 1:19:10

Mostly corporate. You know, tough also in the fact that there were just seven. I've presented to maybe 300 or 400 people in an auditorium on the end and as little as five on the training end. Right, I would much rather any time get up in front of 300 or 400 people.

Speaker 3: 1:19:37

Absolutely. Give me a coliseum rather than a coffee table, is what I've said.

Speaker 2: 1:19:44

Right, you just the level of scrutiny that you feel with with five or seven and and I think I've only presented to that age, you know, school age children a couple of times and, like you said, it's um, if you're not on or if you're not holding their attention, they're not going to fake it for you, right? No, you don't need them fill out a survey. When you're done, you'll know as it's happening. Yes, 100.

Speaker 3: 1:20:17

The survey is on their face and they are not happy. That's what the survey is absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:20:26

Where do you? Where are you now in your evolution? I know you've got the app coming out, right, of course. Uh, you, you continuing to do the speaking and, as you said, and largely because of the knee surgery, you've kind of cut back on the racing for now. Where do we see dane headed in five years, kind of what? What's your path?

Speaker 3: 1:20:54

I mean it's crazy. So I had this knee surgery in march and in my previous 25 years of running the longest I'd ever taken off was 14 days, and I'm rapidly approaching 200 straight days without running, and it's a little telling to me how much running shapes my life, even if it's just the small part of each day, because I had all these very cool ideas that are very running centric, that just are sitting on the shelf now because I can't do them. And so I'm doing what my physical therapist had told me to do, and if that means I have to take off a year now so that I can run for another 20 years later. It's been painful, but not in a pain sense, but just in a mental aspect sense I will do that. And so the app is kind of like where all my hands are on deck right now, because I think once that gets going, that's going to open the doors for a lot of other things that I have in mind.

Speaker 3: 1:21:56

But I have a plethora of endurance-type challenges left in my brain that I want to do. There's no shortage of them. There's going to be. Just got to get this knee ready and then I'll get back in it. I've got great. I mean I've got ideas that have been talks with. Like I live in Minneapolis with the links about uh running on a treadmill and trying to finish a marathon distance on the treadmill during the time of a wnba game and people can place wagers that go to charity on whether I finish 26.2 miles in that time or not.

Speaker 2: 1:22:38

So there's no shortage of things I want to do, yeah yeah, and I think people love that kind of thing because we all kind of whether we actually do it or not, at least in our head we like to bet on things right and when we like to.

Speaker 2: 1:22:54

You know, okay, is this guy gonna win this, this person, uh, and when people can do that and also give back or, you know, to charity, uh, I, I think that's something. Yeah, that's, that's quite brilliant actually to come up with that. So, yeah, I, I'm looking forward to that. Oh, just one more time. Let's tell people who want to find you where to find you and and what services are available yeah, so I'm on twitter at c dane run.

Speaker 3: 1:23:27

I'm on, uh, c dane runs my website. Um, I'm extraordinarily googleable and it's funny as I had a marketing director one time. That says it's kind of annoying how accessible you are to people because you, like, you might create a little bit more of an allure of a uh, you know, professional person if you weren't the person who, like, answers every text. But but I am, that's the way I am. So, um, yeah, people can reach out to me anywhere. I respond to virtually everybody in the manner that they respond to me. Uh, meaning, I you're nice to me, I'm nice to you, kind of the way that it is Nice.

Speaker 2: 1:24:08

Do you do any coaching like one-on-one coaching?

Speaker 3: 1:24:13

I do coach athletes online. I haven't done any particular one-on-one coaching in a while. Man COVID, really just I I mean it's the most stupid understatement of the year, but man COVID changed everything. I, you know, I I used to coach up to 15 to 20 athletes online at a time and, just um, priorities changed after COVID and I I putting a lot more focus on the people that really matter to me in my life and giving them all my energy.

Speaker 3: 1:24:46

I've cut down my speaking engagements simply because I want to spend more time not on the road, but I feel that I've found different ways to spend less time doing more. Spend less time doing more, and that's what I'm I'm trying to do is is, is is get out to, to maybe even more people by, but doing it more, uh, generally than than specific, because specific takes there's only one of me, you know so, and I'm I'm pretty tireless, but there's only 24 hours in a day, so right, right, and that's the beauty of your app that, yes, that's the one thing that you you can create multiples of you, right, right, exactly that it takes away that time constraint of there's only one concept multiple danes, don't that's right.

Speaker 3: 1:25:40

I hear you.

Speaker 2: 1:25:41

I've heard somebody say that, ryan, listen, you're an extremely fascinating guy, you're a very intelligent guy and yet I like the fact that there is that humble aspect to you, but there's also the aspect of the guy that isn't afraid to talk about his accomplishments, which I so love. That Because humble, just humble, gets boring to me, right?

Speaker 2: 1:26:19

Yes, boring to me, right, yes, every time you compliment somebody or if they're always downplaying even that one thing that they do. Well, it's like, dude, come on, quit. You don't have to pretend like you're not good at this, you are right. Can we just talk about it? And I, I love that about you.

Speaker 2: 1:26:35

Uh, you've, you've done some just mind-blowing things and I can only imagine that your knee injury in the 200 days off have probably been frustrating in a way that there's a part of you that's like you know what, when I come back, you watch this, hold my beer, kind of thing. Right, I'm not so so I can see that that happening. Uh, I think people should reach out, buy one of your books and I, the one that really sounds compelling to me is ignore the impossible just because you said it's kind of pulled from all the other books, right, right, so right, it's kind of a concentrated form of dane. That's where you you maybe can can really pick up what he's picking up, right, yes, so I'd love to have you back sometime. Good luck with the recovery, continued recovery on the thank on the knee. I'm sure you will be back in the groove, but we'll talk again sometime and until then, thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 3: 1:27:51

Thank you, Jack. It's been a great conversation. I really appreciate it All right.

Speaker 2: 1:27:56

I'll talk to you soon, thank you, thank you, thank you.