Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Jack Hopkins Show podcast, where stories about the power of focus and resilience are revealed by the people who live those stories and now the host of the Jack Hopkins Show podcast, jack Hopkins.

Speaker 2: 0:19

So, rebecca Jones, I am so glad to have you back on, and I must say I think part of that is that we are so much alike.

Speaker 3: 0:33

I'm glad to disagree with you. I actually I said yesterday to my husband I was like you know what I feel like he's the male version of me if I stuck with this for a few more years.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Right.

Speaker 3: 0:45

Because we always seem to be on the same page.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Yeah, yeah, and we both know what it's like to make really tight friends with some people and then have other people who run away as fast as they can because they don't want to be friends.

Speaker 3: 1:04

Yeah, at-risk-averse people is quite common in the Democratic Party.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Yeah, yeah, that's been. I think I talked about that a little bit yesterday with Anthony Scaramucci. I said, you know, as a former Republican coming to this party, that's been. My biggest complaint is what do you have to do to get the party as a whole, and particularly leadership, to fight, to fight, to roll up their sleeves and duke it out?

Speaker 3: 1:32

Well, there's more sinister theories about that. You know, of course, that they don't really want to to begin with. They're satisfied with the status quo. They just need to this is going to sound very awful be more successful in herding sheep to vote for them so they can maintain that status quo. But you know, I know a lot of people in democratic politics and that might be a lot of them, but it's not all of them and there are enough people in prominent positions who aren't like that to still leave me being a member of the party.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Sure, sure, I understand what you mean here. A while back and I guess I shouldn't even really bring it up because I can't remember what event it was, but I think you may know, there was some type of in honor of somebody type event where Chuck Schumer was in attendance and Donald Trump was speaking, and it's been within, I don't know, the last three or four months.

Speaker 3: 2:37

I think it was the Catholic fundraiser.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Yeah, I think it was too. I think it was, and, to be fair, there were people from both parties there, yeah, and what stood out to me, though, chuck schumer was seated to trump's left, kind of somewhere on the front, and when, when donald was really digging in, kind of making some jokes about some issues that are pretty sensitive to the Democratic Party. He was laughing.

Speaker 2: 3:10

Yeah, he was laughing. Now I brought that up at the time and some of his defenders rushed out and said oh, you know he was just. But any time I hear that word, just my ears perk up. Yes, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 3: 3:28

Is it really possible? You know, to get through this night I'm going to need some hard liquor.

Speaker 2: 3:32

And by that point.

Speaker 3: 3:33

I'm like who cares?

Speaker 2: 3:34

Right, right. Yeah, it's one of those things.

Speaker 3: 3:39

I was at a very private event with Chuck after, after Harris had become the nominee and there was a lot of debate about the vice presidential nominee. First of all, that the person that brought me to this thing is a very important person and they could have as soon as because they all know who I was and recognize me immediately they could have said you know, I don't think this is an appropriate conversation to have around somebody like that, and I would have not been offended. I'd be like, yes, I'm somewhat famous, actually pretty much exclusively famous for not keeping my mouth shut, so that would be fair. But they decided to have this conversation in front of me anyways, and there was a lot of drinking. Drinking, first of all that was one of the first things I learned in politics is everybody is drunk all the time.

Speaker 1: 4:28

Uh, I may have, uh, walked away with that one, but um go to a flat.

Speaker 3: 4:37

It's friday night it is, and I've had a really long day, but um, they were. They were talking about tim Waltz as the VP pick and this was, was it? It was like a week before it was announced, maybe five days. Oh my God, do you know how hard it was. I didn't burst until late the night before I posted a Harris Waltz like T-shirt thing that one of the graphic designers, who was, you know, involved with making sure that they had the stuff ready to go for sale, because obviously they wanted that to hit the shelf the minute they announced it. So you bet those people had to know. And, uh, luckily I only did it on like threads, so nobody really noticed. Or maybe they thought I was being hopeful. Um, I thought I was gonna be on the shit list after that, like for real on the shit list, and I got invited to something else this week and I was like I don't know what I was. Like I didn't think Chuck Schumer cares about social media or reads it, because I'm pretty hard ass on him yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:37

You know, I think we've read some of the things I said I need to be invited to these things, but it's a little transactional with these people. It's really unfortunate. But the higher up you go, it's all about what's a resource we can keep close enough to our circle so they feel included, but not so close that they could screw something up just in case we need them. And I felt like that's how myself and a lot of other people I think think that are progressive influencers on my level feel sometimes. Yeah, it's just very disingenuous. And that's what I felt when I watched the Laughing during the Catholic thing. I was like ultimately, this is all just a game.

Speaker 2: 6:15

Right.

Speaker 3: 6:16

But this is our real life.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Right, I have to agree, I was pissed off. I was like, look, you know what, out here, these are black and white issues for us, even the ones that have a gray area. Because of the voting system, the way that works, we think in terms of black and white, in terms of pick a side right, and so when we see people operating in the gray area that we sometimes see, pretending like they are black and white or opposite one another, it's, it's, it's not confusing to to you and I, I guess in the sense that we know what's going on yes, yes yeah, they're sitting there telling us that this election is the end of the world for america.

Speaker 3: 7:05

And you know, we, we, us, the people, have to fight like hell. We've got to give up all our money to these people and now. But you're expecting all of us to treat it this way and that's not being conveyed. You know it's, it's, there's something lost in translation, and I think it's just that a lot of normal people don't think this is a game yeah and they don't understand that.

Speaker 2: 7:38

That's how those types of people exist I agree with you in that, an elected leader on that level. Look, if you are going to tell me, if you're going to give me some version of it's the end of the world, then it better be the end of the world. When you are telling me that don't, don't. Later let me see you in a frame of reference or context where you're going. Oh you, you know it's, it's. It's not that big a deal.

Speaker 3: 8:05

Be consistent, like Biden immediately inviting Trump and being all warm and cozy. Everyone's like you told us this guy was going to destroy the United States and he was going to round people up into camps and that he was the most evil, awful person in the world. And then you're like, let's just come by, it's all fun and games, you know it'll be cool.

Speaker 2: 8:30

Yeah, that's even like nobody's gonna trust this ever again, like we may know I you know and don't get me wrong and and I think that the same is true of you, although I'll let you speak to that. Look, I love joe biden, I, I love joe b, but, as you said, if you are going understand you, the citizens, your fears and concerns, but then, because of tradition and and protocol, um a day after the election, you're like hey, buddy, come on over, let's time.

Speaker 3: 9:17

Yeah, like I remember that was like the tweet is. You know, we talked about the future of our country and they're both smiling and it's just. It's like you had people ready to go to jail. That's what it took to stop this guy, and then it's all cool once it's done. And yeah, it was.

Speaker 3: 9:35

The Democrats wanted to make a point that this is how a transition is supposed to work, not like the last time, to kind of reestablish what the precedent is, and I get the historical importance of that. Like years from now, that will be very important, but right now I hate to use this word because it's one of the worst words that I think you can accuse a person being of Disloyalty. That's just how it feels like To everything that we stood for, not like our party, which is having a multiple identity crisis across the board, um, but to the belief that democracy was sacred and that it had to be protected. I mean, shit, I didn't go to prison just for fascism to. Or. I didn't go to prison, I'm sorry, I didn't go to jail and face going to prison just for fascism to take over the whole fucking country.

Speaker 3: 10:27

And I mean, half the people appointed are from florida and you know, it's like I'm sitting there like, oh god, who that wants me dead or in jail is going to be appointed to a cabinet position today right um, and you know the santas really, really wants to to have his name in there and it's kind of sad and desperate if you know DeSantis really, really wants to have his name in there and it's kind of sad and desperate if you know the backstory behind that. But it's just like what Shit guys. I think I really didn't want to jail for this shit. I was ready to go to prison. I didn't flee like Ed Snowden or Julian Assange God bless his soul. I stayed here to fight because it was important and I was willing to do that. And yet nobody here is willing to. I mean because you know they have shit. You know they have plenty. If they wanted to, they could do Right, but they just don't want to. They're cowards.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Right, there's a book actually that's referenced quite a bit. I don't own the book, I always forget, I always say I'm going to buy it, but I think the title of the book is Three Felonies a Day and it essentially was written by an attorney, I believe, who was saying look, if somebody wants you bad enough, the average American commits three felonies a day, three felonies a week, whatever. But yeah, frequently, and entering into the time frame that we are about to find ourselves in, that is a little spooky, you know.

Speaker 3: 12:02

Well, I don't know if we commit that many, because Florida really, really, really wanted to get me and I walked out scot-free no convictions, no guilty pleas. I managed to get my ass out of there, but I had a lot of institutional support, academic support, professional organization support, a lot of public support that most people in that situation don't have and that definitely played a part. But there was a higher government by the time all of that started to happen, because Trump was president when I was raided. But by the time that I was arrested it was three days before Biden was inaugurated and actually on my drive home was Inauguration Day and it was the.

Speaker 3: 12:48

I actually think I posted about this because it was so strange is that when I left you know we moved there January 6 to DC or 5th, which was, I thought this place was like a war zone. Because of that we were four miles from the White House. It was crazy. I left to go to jail that we were four miles from the white house. It was crazy. I left to go to jail in florida. Um, stayed I. I was sick with coven, so I went to jail for one night. They let me go. I was in hiding under a fake name in a hotel, sick, passed out on the floor, I thought I was gonna die. But on my drive back home to my new home in dc, biden was being sworn in and I realized that something is changing and there was someone that I could go to if this really became a wrong hand, and I think that's part of the reason why they never made my case a federal case.

Speaker 2: 13:41

I was going to ask you.

Speaker 3: 13:42

I or anybody like that, because as long as the state controlled it, biden couldn't pardon me for state crime. Um, the very first thing that he signed as president, the very first thing, was the covet 19 whistleblower protection act. James rathke flat out told me he wrote that for me and I was like, oh, that's great, it wouldn't help me.

Speaker 3: 13:59

But now that I just got back, from jail, but thank god um, but you know, know, I had hope that, you know, if there were other people like me in states like Florida, there was somewhere they could go, and I think that comfort has been just kind of evaporated overnight and Florida has become America and that's, frankly, the scariest thing of all is that all the things that were tested and tried in Florida you know, this classic fascist playbook are now being implemented everywhere. I mean, project 2025 is like the DeSantis Federalist playbook and we're going to have to live under that for at least four years Hopefully only four.

Speaker 2: 14:43

Right, hopefully only four. Yeah, under that for at least four years. Hopefully only four. Right, hopefully only four. Yeah, I'm sure no doubt that at the time of your at the raid or the arrest or or even serving time in jail, the thought has had to have crossed your mind. This could have been so different if trump would have been re-elected, in terms of how it applied to you. Do you think you would have been? Maybe they would have looked at your original charges differently.

Speaker 3: 15:09

Yeah, I think they would have, because I knew some people in the Biden admin from my work that I had done in 2020. Like, I knew the guy who was appointed to head the White House COVID data task force, andy Slavitt, and other people that I had enough connection with and I was being like you know, this is what Biden ran for was doing right by COVID and the first bill he signed. And then yet, because that all happened right before he was sworn in right after the election, that was the thing people were talking about. It would have been really bad optics to ignore the situation I was in. But, yeah, if it was Trump, I don't know. Well, I mostly stayed off that guy's radar for a good reason, I don't know, I don't own the shit list of these very powerful men. It just keeps happening, but, yeah, I wouldn't have felt like there was a potential you know savior out there for me somewhere, right and that's a big deal.

Speaker 2: 16:09

That is a big deal to um to, to feel like somebody's got your back, somebody on a level that, whether they did or not, at least hood kind of come in and say you know what this is injustice, we're going to do something here, just like that was my, we moved to this area specifically because we were our first house here was in, I mean sprinting distance to like six different consulates that do not have extradition.

Speaker 3: 16:43

We're like, okay, you know, like zimbabwe's right there and we have all these other ones over here. And if we really really had to, you know, if the santa sent stormtroopers up from florida, which he threatened to do when I moved here, um, they threatened to come to my house again and take me. Uh, I hit the road and was like, well, guess what? I'm on my way to jail. So you can't do that and there's no purpose in doing that. Um, we could literally pick up a bag and just run somewhere safe. Yeah, and um, I'd certainly know that.

Speaker 3: 17:16

Biden wouldn't have tried to extradite me for any of those things you know. Um, trump hates to Santa. So I'm not sure that he would have, but you never know. I and he would have, but you never know. I mean this is all about favors.

Speaker 2: 17:26

That's the first thing that came to mind. I don't know. I saw a blurb the other day that potentially Trump was considering DeSantis for something and my first thought is that'll never happen because he would be taking too much of the spotlight away from Donald. Or if it does happen, it'll be so short-lived just because of the conflict between the two of them. I would guess that kind of mirrors your thoughts on it.

Speaker 3: 17:54

DeSantis thinks that he is divine government and that he's entitled and appointed by God to go to these high places, and Trump doesn't believe in God at all. So there's a fundamental difference to the two right off the bat. And he thinks DeSantis is a joke and he hit DeSantis really hard during the primary and I got to know some of Trump's people. I think I might have actually spilled the beans about that on your show last time.

Speaker 2: 18:28

I think you did, maybe? Yeah, and, by the way, for anybody watching, rebecca and I did a prior episode of the Jack Hopkins show, so if you haven't seen it, be sure to go watch that.

Speaker 3: 18:40

Yeah, and so you know, I had some friends who told me, like how could you do that? Like how could you work with those people? How could you help those people? Was like I'm not helping them, I'm hurting him right.

Speaker 3: 18:54

And you know, if florida had risen up and like gotten the pitchforks and ddd this guy way back when I wouldn't have to be fighting this monster, what I feel like on my own, I wouldn't be shouting into an echo chamber of people who already know all of this and won't change anybody's mind.

Speaker 3: 19:13

I got Donald Trump to use my words against the Santas and, yeah, I had somebody recently I got into a big fight with over Israel-Gazaaza stuff and he threw that in my face and I was like wow, that's pretty fucked up. I was like you better than anybody, um, understand why I did that. You were the first person I told that I did that. Yeah, and because I disagree with you about a genocide, um, you're gonna try to make me feel like a bad guy, as if I'm aligned with trump. So this is strange, but it was. But you know, I think part of and that kind of encompasses what I hate about democrats is they're cowards. You know, we won't go into spaces that we don't feel safe, like grant stern I don't know if you know him- yes, I had him on here a while back, yeah okay, I love him to death.

Speaker 3: 20:04

He is one of the most insightful people I've ever met in my life. Um, you know, I met his family and everything and he, uh, he goes on like oan and newsmax, all the freaking time he does, he really does yes he goes straight to them and challenges their perspectives and he's kind of becoming like their token liberal. But it's like otherwise we wouldn't have a voice there. Like if I hadn't gone to Trump's people, what I had to say would never have reached half the population and we have to be willing to do those things.

Speaker 3: 20:40

We have to be willing also to invest in people like you and not a lot. Seed this space to the Republican far right QAnon crazy people, which has been, since the election, one of, like, the biggest things people have been pushing. It's like you have a slate of talent so deep that you could invest a hundred million dollars in it and you get at least like a hundred different top shows out of it, like yours was one of the ones I mentioned and, um, I was like it's insane that we're not doing that because we're afraid. We're afraid that somebody like jack hopkins will say something that doesn't align with the party platform and that there will be bad names called about democrats who support you and we. We for some reason think that, oh my God, I must stop this. I must stop funding this. I must not associate with this. You know I have to. We can't have loose cannons. Right.

Speaker 3: 21:33

He doesn't care about that. I mean, half the stuff Joe Rogan says is liberal or doesn't make sense, and then sometimes he's conservative. It's all over the place. But they know that at the end of the day he's on their team, right, and that's the agenda that he will forward in the end.

Speaker 2: 21:47

the details don't matter as much, but we don't do that no, we don't, and I think one of the things we miss out on I think anthony and I talked about this a little bit yesterday when we aren't having those conversations, we lose out on a whole bunch of feedback that lets us know more than any amount of campaigning door-to-door could ever give us right. Because it's in those moments of disagreement, where where the emotional stuff comes out, where the the stuff that really matters, the stuff that people are really going to be voting on, that's when that comes out. And, man, if you're willing to throw in the towel on that and say nope, can't talk to you because we might disagree on something, you're throwing a lot away, I think.

Speaker 3: 22:42

Yeah, it was Wednesday. This is how bad time has gone for me. The other thing that I was invited to that I said I was surprised to invite to was like two days ago. It was like forever. We went over some of the.

Speaker 3: 22:52

It was like a high-end debrief for political operatives in this area in Montgomery County, which is one of the most politically active places in the country because half of DC lives here, which is one of the most politically active places in the country because half of dc lives here. Um, like jamie raskin's, my rep, and you know we just elected, uh, angela also brooks. That was a hard fought, you know, win with a good, good person and uh, I was just at first I was like I can't believe you guys are still inviting me to shit, but they were showing some of the, the trends that we had seen and pretty much since like 2002 or three, the majority, almost three quarters of the people in this country, no matter who is president, think that our country is moving in the wrong direction yeah and we have seen the seesaw of power exchanged by one or more branches every single election since 2004, every single one and um.

Speaker 3: 23:47

It's because people are just frustrated. And when they're frustrated they take it out on whoever is in power, regardless of whether or not what they say makes sense. So like, look, I know something's not working, let's try something else yes and that is something that's like I said.

Speaker 3: 24:04

It's like the last 20 years it's a phenomena, um coincided with the rise of social media, with the iraq war, you know, taking this really kind of public downward turn and a lot of other things. I mean, hurricane katrina was about that time, um, and so it's just if people are, they're going to blame whoever is in power.

Speaker 2: 24:25

Oh, I agree.

Speaker 3: 24:26

And that's not very productive for making change. No, and I'm going to give you.

Speaker 2: 24:32

I'm not, you know.

Speaker 3: 24:34

And so it's how do we tease this out to do something effective?

Speaker 2: 24:40

Right, I just had this thought the other day and I'm no James Carville or any kind of strategist, it's just a random thought I was having. But I thought, you know, particularly in this election of course, hindsight's 20-20, but because of the simplicity of this thing that you just nailed, which is when people are frustrated, they just take it out on whoever. It's almost as if we would have put up a candidate who was so much unlike what Democrats would normally vote for, but because of who it was against, they would have voted for him anyway that some Republicans would have said you know what? I can actually buy into this. I wouldn't have voted for him or I wouldn't have voted for her, because they were just towing the party line. But this is radically different and I think we are so afraid to break that mold and say you know what? We are going to try? Something different. It's what people want. I mean, kamala Harris was something different. It's what people want.

Speaker 3: 25:45

I mean, Camilla Harris was something different, you know when she was she was one of the most progressive. Her voting record was one of the most progressive senators.

Speaker 3: 25:54

during the term that she was in the Senate A lot of people felt like she felt pressured from the Biden administration to go along with policies that she may not have otherwise agreed with, because she had to, on one hand, remain loyal as the vice president, on the other, try to make herself different, and she wasn't given enough time for that. The guy who was presenting all this data the other night said the second that Biden decided to run for reelection. We were toast.

Speaker 3: 26:22

The second that he said I'm running for reelection. It was the second that he that he said I'm running for reelection. It was over, we were never gonna win. And, uh, if he had done what everybody kind of thought he was gonna do when we elected him the first time, it'd be a one term. You know, let's fix some shit, stabilize, you know, get the pulse going back normally, and then we'll explore new avenues. Then it would have been completely different. Because something we didn't see democrats talk about was that trump was already president once. We should have been talking about what he did when he was president the last time he had this chance. He tanked the economy during covid, you know he did. He almost started a war with, you know, iran and all of these other things. Instead, we talked so much about what he might do that we didn't associate him with a bad period of time that everybody remembers that he already did do yes, it's like he had his chance to fix shit and he wrecked it and you know buying his stabilized things.

Speaker 3: 27:19

It's not great, but here is a new democrat with fresh ideas and they're going to pick up the mantle and bring us in a new, different direction. And I think for Harris, that was her struggle. She did not have enough of an identity, separate from Biden, and not long enough to establish it.

Speaker 2: 27:39

She was just too, and you took the words right out of my mouth where I was going with that, because you are so right. She was different and, as you alluded to, I think the mistake was not unleashing her right. She felt this commitment, this loyalty to President Biden, not to harm him, but she's understandable. Yeah, absolutely Get it. I get it. But she's understandable. Yeah, absolutely Get it, I get it. But I think it probably played a role in costing her the election. I read an article the other day and I can't remember it might have been David Frum, I can't remember who wrote it, but it was a great article and it talked about the moment that everything shifted and this, of course, is debatable, but it was a key moment when she was on the view and asked can she think of anything she would do different from president biden? And she said right now, there's nothing I can think of.

Speaker 3: 28:36

And I agree everybody's frustrated with their life. They hear that it's like so you're not going to try anything different right, you know this guy's he's going to come in with all these new ideas. You know so well. It's the what. Do I have to loose mentality? Things are shit right now for me and my family. She's saying she's not going to change anything. You know, at least that guy's saying I'm going to, you know, blow it up and rebuild it and a lot of people like that idea even on the left, a lot of people like that idea.

Speaker 3: 29:02

Even on the left, a lot of people like the idea of the system is broken, blow it up and let's do something different. I mean, of course, they've been completely bamboozled and the people that want to blow it up are the same people in charge right now and they just want to rebuild it to be more beneficial to them. And then that's where the media part comes in, and god knows that I've said enough how great and fantastic traditional uh media outlets have been in covering this kind of unprecedented, repeatedly unprecedented um period in american history. But yeah, it's. You can't tell people that they should be grateful for what they have, but so many people are struggling. It's like that is not the answer. Someone's like look, I'm working two jobs. I mean we got back to I think they said pre-COVID. Pretty much that's what our economy is.

Speaker 3: 29:56

It's like does no one remember how shitty that was? How everybody in the country I think it was like 90% of the country was one you know unexpected hospital bill or one expected, you know, car repair bill away from poverty. That was not a good place for most of America. Bragging that you got us back to 2019 is not a good thing. It's not enough. You know you don't go out and tell people look, it's a lot better than it was. It's still not enough. What are we going to do differently?

Speaker 2: 30:27

and then harris said can't think of anything and it's like oh, you know, if there's one thing and I, I I hate to I guess I don't hate to do it because I do it, I dislike that, I can, can do this and that is is give Donald Trump credit for anything. But if there's one thing he excels at, and there's a quote long before Donald Trump that had to do with I think it was the Sizzler Steakhouse. I think it might have been something somebody said about them and said we don't sell, we sell the sizzle, we don't sell the steak right. So, meaning the commercial, the steak is on the grill and it's the anticipation of that steak, that's what they, they sell. And donald trump frames things in such a way that he creates such an anticipation and excitement and half of it's at least, and and the other half sometimes everybody right, right he doesn't know what his heref is.

Speaker 3: 31:34

So you know, it's like, oh, we're right. We're like, yeah, it's like, do you choose?

Speaker 2: 31:38

like yeah, we, we need we need to be able to frame things. We need to be able to frame things in a more emotional way. You know, talking policy just doesn't resonate with the guy.

Speaker 3: 31:56

People don't vote for policy anymore. No, no they don't that age probably died with the 24-hour news cycle? Yes, or some people say it died with Kennedy versus Nixon. The debate stage that was the moment that policy discussion died right I don't like to give into that, because I think that the fact that the more educated you are, the more likely to be liberal, is a strength, not a weakness, because it is it also works the reverse way. It's not.

Speaker 3: 32:20

It's bimodal, it's not a linear line and so, like you have the poor people in the country and the least educated people in the country, and then you have the middle class, you have a Republican and then you have the smartest. It's bimodal.

Speaker 3: 32:33

And there's a reason why the poorest people in the country vote the same way as the most educated people in the country, and that is because they understand the system yes, and why it's not working Agreed. They understand the system yes and why it's not agreed. So I don't think that we should give up on policy. I just think we need better. What's salesman?

Speaker 3: 32:51

and then that sounds really really shitty, no we do, we need yeah, yeah, we need people who can make people understand who actually care. That's always a benefit. They legitimately care about people. I think you can always kind of kind of tell when somebody's not really there. Like nobody thinks mitch mcconnell gives a shit about anybody. He's, he's all about the party and the power. Nobody's going to mistake him for an empath right. But you know we have a lot of democratic people who fake it and for me it's easy to read through them and their actions and the things that they vote for. But you know real people who live real lives, not online, you know, not in CEO meetings or investor meetings, like on the job. They can tell they feel that and Trump, for as ridiculous as he is, is exactly what he is in real life on TV, Like you know, like whole thug persona thing. No, that is him all the time. He is being authentic authentically stupid authentically sure but still that is his real self.

Speaker 3: 33:58

And we have not. We haven't found a jfk. You know the embodiment of somebody who knows what they're talking about, has, has the policy points, has the I hate to say it good looks of charm and can sell something to people who are looking for hope. I mean, we had Obama. I guess I should say that Obama was all of that.

Speaker 2: 34:17

He was, he was and we're trying to recreate it.

Speaker 3: 34:20

But maybe it can't be recreated. Maybe what we need next is the next step from that right, and I feel like that's that's part of our struggle too. And, uh, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that jared moskowitz is one of those people who's fake as fuck, but I I think you mentioned that in episode one as well. Yeah, now on the Doge committee too. So he's on the UFO committee and the Doge committee with all Republicans.

Speaker 2: 34:47

I see that.

Speaker 3: 34:49

He was totally supporting for the AG nominee and I tried to tell people about this guy. He was like I got something too. He was my friend. He was a close friend, like talk to every single day, friend.

Speaker 2: 35:03

And then something changed well as I recall on the first episode I think correct me if I'm wrong you were saying that he and matt gates were at one time pretty close friends.

Speaker 3: 35:15

They have always been close um, since they were both in the state legislature and he is one of the people named in that report. That well, apparently they voted not to release.

Speaker 3: 35:27

I think that vote was today or yesterday, and so that's it. It's gone, unless one of the Democratic House members who received it decides to leak it. But they won't, because of the same things that we're talking about. They're cowards. There are Democrats who are implicated in it, which makes things messy for everybody. Democrats were implicated in it, which makes things messy for everybody. There are large financiers who donate. You know, smart people donate to everybody Because so no matter who, wins they got it.

Speaker 3: 35:56

Sure, that's like UnitedHealthcare. They are almost 50-50 in the percent of people that they support, so that no matter who comes out on top, they're above them Right, and that's why they release it. I mean, if democrats really wanted to put up a fight, they'd link it and they won't right maybe somebody will have a stage of heart and do it.

Speaker 2: 36:13

But looking back, I I think the record shows that that pre-politics, donald trump always, uh, contributed politics. Donald Trump always contributed to candidates of both parties.

Speaker 3: 36:27

Well, he was in New York City and most of the power in New York City is Democrats, so that's who he gave to. He had, you know, come up through Miami and there was a lot of Republicans he would have given to them. It's just about racing the wheels of whoever's around.

Speaker 2: 36:39

That's it. That's what I was going to say. He knows I may need you sometime in the future. Uh, you may not align with me right now with what I need, but you might, and so, whether it was an actual campaign contribution or something else that you could call a favor, uh, and like you said, I I it not to pick on any one particular person. I think it's just a way of doing business at that level, because you know it is what it is. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 37:13

There was a national beer pack I think it was actually called beer pack that I approached about endorsing me instead of Matt Gaetz, because I guess Democrats are hazy about that stuff and I was like fuck, no. I was like, let's have a couple beers, let's talk about policies you want to instill. And it was like a craft brewery national back and I was like you guys make the good stuff anyways, so you know, let's talk about how we can do it.

Speaker 3: 37:39

I was like I'm drinking you anyway. I mean, if I have to and there's no other choice, maybe a heineken, but I'm not drinking, right, you know. And um, they basically said, yeah, we will give to you, but we'll also give to him. And I was like, hey, and they said, what he's probably gonna win? We like you, but he's probably gonna win. And I I found that very, very telling.

Speaker 3: 38:00

I was like so you're just business people, for for most of them, they're just business people. They're like yeah, we like her, she, I got a lot of attention, which is great for them. Um, that's really ultimately what matters. But they're like he's gonna win, so we'll give to him, but sure, because you're spunky and you're fighty, you know we'll give you a little bit too. Um, so I mean, it's, it's just business. That's why I said the transactionalness of politics is just business. And maybe they're, maybe they're second guessing that, I don't know, with this ddd shooter out there. But well, the news, like the last two days has been oh, it is sufferable, right, everything on my is a different news agency being like police are looking for information. Police found this backpack. Police are like nobody's going to fucking give this guy up. I seriously hope that they realize that, unless somebody feels like they're personally in danger, this guy has been anointed to almost hero status and nobody even knows who he is.

Speaker 2: 38:59

He has.

Speaker 3: 39:00

I agree, stop trying to force us to be against this guy. We're not against this guy.

Speaker 2: 39:05

Right.

Speaker 3: 39:06

No one's going to come out and be like, yeah, we should start killing all the CEOs.

Speaker 2: 39:09

No, no I mean.

Speaker 3: 39:10

Sure, I'm sure there's that population. Morality is such a thing, I mean. But this isn't just your standard like small business CEO. We're talking about the largest, you know, health care agency in the world, the health care agency that denied 32 percent of all claims made. 32 percent to like only two out of three people got their claims approved through UnitedHealthcare and that's absolutely insane. And they land these huge state contracts. I heard that people at United were starting conspiracy theories that the NYPD wasn't actually looking for this guy, because United Health Care is the NYPD health care insurance provider and they denied like 50 percent of their claims over the last five years.

Speaker 3: 39:53

I was like you know, judging from the Internet, they seem to think we should all be out sleuthing for this guy, like he was the Boston Marathon bomber, which, by the way, the Internet sleuthing identified the wrong person and that person ended up dead. So that's not necessarily a good thing that you want to do, but you know it's like we're not going to help you with this. Like this guy is in the middle of a DOJ investigation for defrauding one hundred and one point two million dollars from UnitedHealthcare because they found out there's two different lawsuits. They found out they were being investigated for fraud and a whole bunch of other stuff, and so they started dumping stocks, knowing that the second that that information became public, the stocks would tank, and that's exactly what happened. This guy personally got away with at least $15.1 million.

Speaker 3: 40:39

These are bad guys and the Americans were so cold about it, holy shit, they literally stepped over his body before he was even dead and we're like we're still holding this meeting and you know we got to move forward and right. He said not for his job. Like less than 48 hours later and that was the only moment I actually kind of felt sympathetic towards this person was like they're like he's dead, let's get somebody else and move on, and I was like're like, yeah, he's dead, let's get somebody else and move on.

Speaker 2: 41:11

And I was like, damn, even if you're the ceo of this, that they don't think you matter, that you're a human right. And I had some lag time on that story. I was paying attention to, to a couple of other things and it kind of, you know, I just in the periphery, I knew that it happened, but I hadn't really zoned in on it yet. But a few hours later, when I did, and and I, okay, this is what it's about, this is who it was and I remember thinking in my mind this guy's going to be a frigging hero in about 24 hours and that, like you said, it's almost where it's at.

Speaker 3: 41:36

Yeah, well, I think the latest update was that they know that he bought a bus ticket out of New York and I honestly I mean you, new york, and I honestly, I mean you should read the comments on all of this and people are claiming it's toxic. I was like no toxic is threatening. She caught off a woman's head and rape her, severed head because she stood up for ron santos. That's fucking toxic. Saying that, you know why? Is it okay that this guy helped denied claims, that kills. I think it's a united healthcare 68 000 people a year, every year, die because of claim denials and delays and that's okay. But somebody probably the relative of one of these people, or somebody radicalized, I mean because clearly the what was written on those bullets was meant to send a message.

Speaker 2: 42:24

Clearly.

Speaker 3: 42:26

Yeah. So either he's radicalized against the industry, which nobody can blame him for, or he's been personally affected. I told my husband I was like, if it turns out, this guy lost a parent or a spouse or God forbid a child.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:39

The jury in the world is going to convict this guy? No, and I was like nobody's going to help them find him, because they're acting like what he did is the most atrocious thing comprehensible. I mean. Several blocks away, two teenagers were attacked because they didn't speak english by three men with screwdrivers. One of them died. One was a 17 year old immigrant and died. The other one's in the hospital, just blocks away. No fbi involvement. These three men are still at large and their faces aren't being plastered by literally every network news station every five minutes on all social media. It's. That is why I think there's this disconnect between the media, people, uh, which has been a problem for a while, and it is you're like.

Speaker 3: 43:24

I want you to catch the motherfuckers who stabbed and killed a 17 year old with a screwdriver because he didn't speak english. That is who I want you to catch the guy who took the bus out of the country and clearly this was it for him. He decided he was going to do this one thing he's not on a spree and get the fuck out and some kind of revenge, possibly killing. I don't give a shit about that. Another ceo they've already replaced him. Who the fuck cares that kid, though that kid did not deserve to die why are you looking at those people with this ceo health story?

Speaker 2: 43:55

I I personally have had over the last probably 35, 40 years a who it could be argued and probably proven in court that they died as a result of the claims being denied. Yeah. And I think back to the grief and just the pain and the sheer anger at first, where they would have, absolutely, if there would have been a figurehead, somebody who they knew a face, they would have fucking killed him in an instant over the death of their daughter, no question about it. So, as you said, when the nine inhalers.

Speaker 3: 44:35

When they're going through chemo and they're being charged $30,000, they lose everything. I mean, I was young, but when the movie John Q came out, and the guy like makes the er hospital hostage? Not really, and he doesn't intend to hurt anybody, he just wants them to save his son. But his insurance company did nothing. His heart transplant because it's an elective surgery. No one walks away out of that movie thinking that john q was the bad guy.

Speaker 3: 45:02

Not a single person, you know they think the bad guy, that bitch who denied the insurance claim, who the only reason that it ends in this like great resolution is because she hears him talking to his son and then suddenly finds a heart and soul. But that that is the part that's most unrealistic, you know, like that is the part to me that was the fiction and but we've been almost conditioned to not think that that's a bad guy. I mean because if it was my child sick with leukemia, you know, and we lost everything and we did everything to save this child's life and it still wasn't enough. More people sympathize with a parent in that position than could ever sympathize with a CEO who designs an AI algorithm that ends up denying 90 percent of claims for elderly people, which is what they did.

Speaker 3: 45:52

And that's just as human nature. No-transcript that they would work with him in the future, which, by the way, never fucking works. You can extend your arm like that's what Harris did as far out to the Republicans as you think you know, and you think they're going to grab back, but no, they're going to cut your fucking arm off. And it happened every damn time, every. They're going to grab back, but no, they're going to cut your fucking arm off, and it happens every damn time. Every time we try to compromise, they're like, oh sure, we'll do this, this and that, and then we lose what we set out to do and they get away with all of it.

Speaker 2: 46:36

I don't know who it was Somebody the other day in the article that I was reading, it was a Democrat and they were talking about moving forward. They want to be able to reach across the aisle and work with him. I'm like motherfucker, do you not understand what they have been saying? They want to do to the Constitution, to the people in this country. They've issued every kind of threat that you could issue and you want to reach across the aisle. If reaching across the aisle was what was going to work, we wouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place.

Speaker 3: 47:12

Exactly, exactly, like Obama, bent over backwards. He had two years where he had complete control, and then he had the Tea Party wave, which was really just this kind of reflexive racism that was funded by the heritage foundation to make it look like it was grassroots, when it never really was. Um to to make a real difference and he decided, if he gets one thing done, it's going to be health care. That was the one thing he said he would do, because it was one of the biggest issues of, and this was what 16 years ago, um and uh. So that's what he did, and it was at the very last hour. It was joe mansion, a couple of other fuckers who were like if you want to get the majority for this, you have to do certain things, and the one thing they demanded was seeing the public option. I remember my brother-in-law before he was my brother-in-law told me that because he had checked in on his phone and I cried. I was sitting at dinner and I cried. I cursed him out too, but he wasn't my brother-in-law then. So it was fine, but I had just had my son.

Speaker 3: 48:14

This was 2009. And I did not qualify for Medicaid because I was over 18, so I couldn't get on my parents' health insurance back then, which, for all of the youngins out there, if you were over 18 years old and you were pregnant and you had a dependent, you could not be on your parents' health insurance. Now it's 25 instead of 18. I didn't qualify for Medicaid because the state calculated my scholarship to Syracuse as income. Syracuse was $50,000 back then, so it looked like I was doing just fine and I remember thinking I mean I was already in debt so there was not going to be any fix in that. But how many other people were going to go through this?

Speaker 3: 49:00

And I just started crying. I was at the Whistle Stop Cafe, which was a trailer next to the train tracks in Wiggins, mississippi, crying because they gave up on the public option and to me that set the precedent of you cannot work with these people and of all the data that we saw the other night. I thought there were two points that were that really stuck with me. The first was the loss of enthusiasm within Democratic Party when she hosted the Cheney and other type people events and the respective lack of pool that that had for Republicans. It ended up driving more Democrats away than it did bring in moderate Republicans, which was to me very telling because I wasn't sure at first.

Speaker 3: 49:43

I was like that that might have offset but I wasn't either you know, and so seeing that data for the first time was was like, though, so that really was a loss. I was like I was hoping that would at least be neutral, you know, yeah, and the only other thing that could have turned the tide was gossard, but you know, we're fucked on that issue anyways. So, no matter what, and it's just to me, it's like we're either the moral party who stands firmly for what is right or we're not the pretending to be both at the same time. Obviously, people see through that.

Speaker 3: 50:20

Yeah, this wasn't like the biggest turnout election. It was, I think, like the second biggest turnout since maybe the 80s, but second to, of course, 2020, when voting was accessible and easy for every person in the country. But you know it's they were only about a point and a half apart. Only places where she could have swung it wisconsin, michigan. The issue that broke people was gaza, and so to me, I was like so bringing a chain, you didn't help, or it didn't help in the places where we needed help was, and really, that's all we're talking about. We're talking about like seven or eight states. If you cannot push the needle in those states, it doesn't matter how many people you have from new york no, it doesn't matter I matter california.

Speaker 3: 51:05

You like hillary clinton did. She won the popular vote by almost three times as much as donald trump did this time, and she was still not president, you know.

Speaker 3: 51:13

So it really only matters in those seven states, and in those seven states, the only issue that could have broken those seven states was three of them, which may not have been enough to win. It was Gaza, and everybody was trying to say that, oh my God, I was part of that group, even though I implored everyone. I was like you can't fucking vote for Donald Trump, you have to vote for Harris, because Harris at least there's a chance she'll listen to us. Donald Trump's going to let Jared Kushner turn all of Gaza into a Mediterranean resort, literally paved with the bones of dead children. You know, at least with Harris there, the Democrats are scared and they're cowards. So if you build enough of a pressure campaign, you can sway them, and Harris was never all a pack in before Biden anyways. Pack in before biden anyways. No, in fact, there were several points in the last, like year and several months, where she said things that she was reprimanded for because they were not in line with the biden administration. She said ceasefire in december of 2023, and she was publicly railed for it by biden's people. So you know, it was like she's playing this part. She's got these loyalties. Biden's ancient I mean he was born before Israel even existed. So this is like a generational thing.

Speaker 3: 52:35

And the worst part of that to me is the Democrats were blaming the people who care about Gaza. I'm like I don't fucking care about Gaza. I've taken a lot of fucking heat for caring about Gaza. I'm like I don't fucking care about Gaza, like I've taken a lot of fucking heat for caring about Gaza. Because, frankly, what's this white bitch? You know know about suffering the Middle East? I don't, but that doesn't mean that I can't care about it. I can't look at it from a scientific standpoint. You know, I've been published now and estimating the death toll in Gaza because I've worked in natural disasters and man-made disasters and I know how calculating those uncertainties were. And from a scientific and from a moral standpoint, I cannot side with Israel. At the same time, I have never once suggested anybody do anything other than passionately and, you know, excitedly vote for Harris.

Speaker 3: 53:29

But I, I gotta be honest, we are hurting ourselves every time. We say stupid shit like well, I hope all the gaza supporters feel better now. It's like, how is this different? The trajectory that we were on with biden was a destruction of gaza. It was with the ethnic cleansing of palestinians. How has anything changed? It might happen faster, but there's no guarantee they would have stopped and acting like none of you know. You're suffering now. Fuck you for not doing the thing. I was like. Why us? Why is that on us, the voters, and not the candidates, for listening to us?

Speaker 2: 54:05

I think the thing we forget after an election.

Speaker 3: 54:08

I've got a lot of rum in this drink. This is like three quarters of a cup.

Speaker 2: 54:12

Good, good, so it's going to get better as we go along. I think the thing people forget so quickly right after an election is they forget how quickly the next election is going to come around. They forget how quickly those four years go. And if we start tearing each other completely apart right after the election instead of working to build, saying okay, what do we do? What went wrong? How do we put this back together and go? And I've got to tell you something I've noticed that, I think on a very micro level. It's kind of a metaphor for me about the larger problem in the Democratic Party in terms of what we spoke about earlier. Unless you just line up with everything, then you're kind of cast out to the side.

Speaker 3: 55:07

Earlier. It's like I actually started to draft something that was a list of 100, what we would call like creators or talent that could spearhead emotion, and this was something that was distributed internally within the party and you were on the top 10 of my list and it was immediately flagged immediately flagged as unreliable right and and to that I thought y'all are asking me for this fucking list. If there's anybody in the world who has shown they will not fit in a fucking mold, it is me you bet it's like you, like me, because I can raise money honestly.

Speaker 3: 55:45

I think, at the end of the day, that is it. I mean I raised a million dollars for my campaign, banned on twitter, starting fresh with facebook. Instagram had never used them before. Um didn't use tiktok until like 2022 um, but despite, like my huge platform on twitter.

Speaker 3: 56:03

Everybody thought that's how I would earn money, but it wasn't. It was also my reputation, and that's a million dollars for a congressional campaign that had no fucking chance of winning for a person who's never run for office ever before, with no social media, you know, presence whatsoever. It was impressive to them. They're like, oh yeah, we should, and I I helped some of them Only the people that I morally aligned with. But if you're going to ask me who I think we need on board and then you're going to flag them for being not fully in line, then you're asking the wrong fucking person.

Speaker 2: 56:38

Yeah, and that's the thing. See to me, being completely in line is a weakness.

Speaker 3: 56:44

It's exhausting, it's like I get so sick. There are some people who are prominent in the social media sphere who I see them just towing the party line every day. I'm like, oh my god, do you have an original thought? Do you have a single original thought? Do you have any contribution other than the same thing that's being shared by everybody else to bring to the discussion? Because at this point, you're paid mouthpieces and that's it.

Speaker 3: 57:13

And if we're going to succeed, we need something deeper than that. You need people who can speak with these issues, just with authority or not, you know, expertise, um per se, but heart, somebody can, who can say look, I'm not being told to tell you this, I care about this, this is, I'm allowed to focus on this thing because this is something that means something to me and it matters not just I'm gonna. You know the talking points of the day, because I get the talking points memo, what's sure, every day. Most of the time I just fucking ignore it, but, um, I'll be like, all right, it's a harris thing, I'll tweet it out, but um, it's.

Speaker 3: 57:53

It's ridiculous to think that we making us all generic. It is, it's failure, it's setting us up for failure. We need actual people and and people are risky, but we're not risky, though. That's the other thing too. We're not risky in the way that they are risky. I mean, you know, some of these far like Tim Pool, who's talked about me multiple times on the show, spread a lot of shit about me, stalked me for a while on Twitter, was literally being paid by Russia like a hundred grand a week to spread one pro-russian story, and you know, I kind of want to feel like I am owed all this shit that you've paid to talk shit about me um, but but they did actual things that borderline illegal.

Speaker 3: 58:42

But you're the democratic party's afraid of investing in someone who would disagree with them about something, and that, to me, is like you're risk adverse to disagreement. They're not even risk adverse to foreign funding for election interference. Like, yeah, how do you think we're going to win this? This is is insane, and part of what the Democratic Party espouses is the power of uniqueness, of individualism, of experience, of heart. That's supposed to be us, yet we have nobody out there championing that, and that, to me, is a missed opportunity, to say the least.

Speaker 2: 59:23

I'm paying $100 dollars to invest in people like you, so I you know, at the end of the day, it's not yeah, you know that that emotional loaded punch is is what has been lacking for a long time, and I think there's a there's this quickness to jump to conclusions that anybody who's being very emotional must be some saying something that's irrational, right, right, which sometimes that's the case people do. But when, when you ignore what your, your prefrontal cortex is processing as logic, just because it's got emotion attached to it and you're looking for somebody that only packages it the way you do, so now, it's logic, but it's also sterile. So it's okay, that's a great word for sterile. Yeah, that doesn't win elections.

Speaker 3: 1:00:25

It doesn't. We often mistake what we would think of as emotionality with passion, especially when it comes to women. I mean, we saw what happened in Congress this week with the Secret Service chief and then that crazy Fallon guy Representative Fallon, texas, I think. Oh wow, Lost their shit. Now. I'm not a fan of the Secret Service, but I was really enjoying what the guy from the Secret Service was saying.

Speaker 2: 1:00:56

They were going full tilt boogie.

Speaker 3: 1:01:02

I'm the emotional species that can't be responsible for anything. It's just like these people are super emotional. Call elon, elon musk, cisgender, and he shit. Talk about the santa wearing lifts in his boots and all of a sudden he's an unhinged psychopath. Or me, and then he's an unhinged psychopath, and you know it's it's.

Speaker 3: 1:01:19

We mistake emotional for passion and, and those people are emotional, we're passionate and you know, I think that goes to a greater disease within our party of having people that are dispassionate Because we will. In scientific communities, we reward being dispassionate we always have, because if you're seen as caring too much, then it could blind your, you know, perspective, your objectiveness. But I think that, and a specific agreement climate change, which is, until covid, uh, probably the single discipline most fraught with controversy, um, we've seen a shift away from that. Like michael man, uh, he's considered to be one of the leading climatologists in the world. He's one of my mentors, one of my good friends. He has bucked the tradition and has really become active in politics. Because, as he sees it and I and I agree if you're not advocating for your science with passion and respect for what you do, why would you expect anyone else to? If you cannot advocate for?

Speaker 3: 1:02:32

what that's it and how it impacts the world. In this case, why would anyone else? Now, you have to be out there. You have to be an advocate, because what you're advocating for is based on this dispassionate research that leads to one conclusion, and it's really. I mean, there's a lot of academic discussion about this, especially right now. We saw a lot of it in 2016, where people were like, oh shit, we should probably back up the National Climate Database Center, but now there are mechanisms in place that no one person can destroy it because of 2016. And now people are doing the thing that, you know, everyone says not to do in fascist regimes, which is comply in advance.

Speaker 3: 1:03:21

A lot of climate scientists are scrubbing their Twitters. They're, you know, pulling back, scrubbing their twitters. They're, you know, pulling back on being politically active because they're afraid, right, and they are rightfully afraid. I don't mean for that to seem unjustified. I mean fucking the, the toddler who can't jump. Um published a list of four like people in the federal government that he personally wanted to fire. Yeah, these are private people. These are not people that are out, you know, influencing politics. They're. They're doing work, real work, meaningful work. They just threw their names out there like it was nothing and those people become targets. They they're not getting death threats. Three, all four of them, were women, first of all, and three of them were not white, which I'm sure was a total coincidence. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:04:12

But I'm going to be on one of those fucking lists. They said they're trying to root out shit. You not harvesting climate scientists who work for the federal government? I mean, hello, I ran for Congress as a Democrat against Matt Gaetz and I'm a climate scientist for the federal government. I wouldn't be on that list, and so they're scared. But that's not going to make me shut up.

Speaker 2: 1:04:34

No, that's the thing.

Speaker 3: 1:04:35

I grew up poor. Missing money is nothing new for me. It sucks, but I'm not going to comply and downplay or even fabricate data to make this seem like it's less of an issue than it actually is to appease the overlord. I've been through that shit once before. I've already proven that you can send my ass to jail, I will face prison time and I'll go in, and I'll do it gladly, sick as fuck with COVID, but I will not comply. And we have too many, and I'll do it gladly Sick as fuck with COVID, but I will not comply.

Speaker 3: 1:05:06

Yeah, no, nor will I Too many people are afraid to do that and, I've got to be honest, a lot of these Democratic influencer people wouldn't do that either. They would not risk sacrificing a minute of their time or a dollar in their bank account if push came to shove, and that worries me it worries the hell out of me like these voices that what would you be willing to do?

Speaker 3: 1:05:36

I mean really be willing to do yeah to fight this fight and, if it's not, go to jail, go to prison or be killed, which is what I thought was going to happen to me in jail. I was 100% convinced they were going to kill me in jail and I still think the only reason they didn't was because I caught COVID on the way down and I had to be put in 24-7 monitoring isolation because they had no more med beds available. I left my family and I actually recorded it for the. My friend told me to and I was like I'm'm never gonna see my kids again. They are going to kill me. And left feeling like I knew that and so, if you not that everybody should have to feel that. But we may reach a point where we do.

Speaker 3: 1:06:19

And even some of the people who got famous I hate to take a personal shot here even some of the people who got famous I hate to take a personal shot here even some of the people who got famous off my story would not be able to do that. You would. I feel like I'd trust you to do it. You'd like some people to watch. That's why I love you. You should do it. You can tell if somebody's willing to actually lose something. I I appreciate that because I'm.

Speaker 2: 1:06:46

I'm glad you you pick up on that because, uh, I can't think of any better way to put it than this I don't give a fuck right, I'm not going to change a goddamn thing for this administration.

Speaker 3: 1:07:03

Nothing, I'm I'm not willing to do that that's where I'm at with my family now, but that is absolutely not where I was four years ago. I mean it's oh, wow, it's december 6th, so I was raided exactly four years ago tomorrow and I wish that's why I was always uncomfortable. Back then, in 2020, people call me like a hero and all this. I was like, look, I'm just doing what I think is right, and I didn't feel like I was really in jeopardy until that moment, until they came to my house and pointed a gun at my head and told me to open the door. I was living in this naive bliss where that didn't happen to scientists in this country and, frankly, if I hadn't recorded it, nobody would have fucking believed me. And, frankly, if I hadn't recorded it, nobody would have fucking believed me. Anyways, desantis would have painted me out to be a crazy person.

Speaker 3: 1:07:51

They would have said that all the cameras of every officer who came inside the house was malfunctioning that day, which they later claim not a single officer who came into my house, 13, had a working body camera that day.

Speaker 3: 1:08:00

They would have said I was crazy, but until that moment I did not realize how much danger I was in and I didn't realize how much danger my family was in. Everything after that has been a conscious, a conscious choice. Knowing that threat. Before that I was like I'm telling people about the coven numbers, like I built the system, I know where the back doors are to it. I'm going to tell everybody what's happening, in full perspective, with all of the things the state doesn't want to highlight and what's the worst they could do to me Trash me online. I'm like, oh, big fucking deal, I don't care, I had no idea.

Speaker 3: 1:08:34

Now I do, and there have been, you know, moments where I've walked away. Earlier this year, I walked away for Twitter for several months. I recently quit it. I've walked away. Earlier this year, I walked away for Twitter for several months. I recently quit it, although I've seen people like you be like we can't see this space and while I get it, they came after my kid again. So that was really, really difficult for me. I kind of walked away, but I'm in the process of deleting everything I've ever tweeted and restarting.

Speaker 3: 1:09:07

And I understand both sides of this I do yeah, I get it so a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 3: 1:09:13

My son is autistic. We've we've talked about this sometimes. Anybody who's a parent of an autistic kid knows that sometimes they have episodes, and when you're dealing with a 15 year old autistic child, they can be violent in a way that you can't control yourself. Yeah, so I call for a medical transport to the Crisis Counseling Center here, which is a service that Maryland offers that Florida has never, apparently, thought was necessary.

Speaker 3: 1:09:49

Me online, who have been doing this for four and a half years without stop, found the dish, the dispatch log, with my name spelled incorrectly, without my child's name mentioned in it. That is how much they scour the internet every single fucking day for this shit. Within two days, they had the dispatch log and they published it online and I was like know what? They're making money off of this? They are monetizing accounts. They're making money off of this. Fuck this shit. I'm out, yeah, and I spent pretty much all of this week listening to people who are trying so badly just to reach other people.

Speaker 3: 1:10:21

I literally had somebody told me I was in Baltimore today with people from the governor's office. I literally had somebody told me I was in Baltimore today with people from the governor's office. They were like, like if we could just tell our stories, people wouldn't see immigrants as these horrible people. You know, I've been here for 30 years. You know my child sees doing this and that and I sat there thinking I have 300 and some thousand followers on Twitter and I threw it away because it was inconvenient for me to have to emotionally deal with the DeSantis people. And what does that say about me? You know that these people simply just want to be heard and I'm like I have this and I said fuck it and I walked away from it.

Speaker 2: 1:11:01

I think it only. If it says anything, it only says it about that snapshot in time. I don't think it's indicative of you as a whole. I think it's you know.

Speaker 3: 1:11:14

It's teetering between walking away pretty much all of this year and I think that's because part of me wanted to move on from Florida. Like you know, as soon as they finally dismissed the case, finally dropped it. You know so that on paper the raid never happened. None of the charge single charge, because there was only one from that never happened. It was dropped. I am free and clear. I passed an FBI background check to get my friend the relief I felt like my son is free. After they tried to go after him you know he's no longer on probation I felt like wait, like they don't have a foot on my neck anymore. So I felt like in many, many ways I had already vanquished. My monster.

Speaker 3: 1:11:58

Desantis went down crashing and burning during his presidential campaign, in no small part to what I did with trump, um, his whole like I'm gonna be secretary of defense thing. Like you're really gonna appoint somebody secretary of defense who hasn't spent a single fucking day in combat. Good luck with that. Um unmasked that whole bullshit and got to some of trump's people to kind of explain why they were doing this in the first place, in which they forwarded to trump. And although my civil lawsuit's still going on, it's very fucking clear I'm going to win it. Even the state knows that I'm going to win it. They tried to move for a motion of sovereign immunity recently and that's a public filing and the judge, who is considered the biggest DeSantis fan in that district, said fuck that, are you kidding me? Went so far as to file a claim that said that the plaintiff was entitled to unhapped damages in her filing and this was like this week, and so I was like I'm kicking their fucking ass and I vanquished my monster.

Speaker 3: 1:13:02

He's done, he's toast, he's irrelevant. He's a lean-up governor who's all fascist experiment blew up in his face and everybody hates him, even trump if he's still, maybe he'd have a future, but he doesn't, because I break that, and so you know me and a lot of other people worked on that, but um well, since that's on cap.

Speaker 2: 1:13:21

When you win that, uh, you can send me a dinner invitation.

Speaker 3: 1:13:25

I'll bring my wife, we'll go, oh, I'll well, you know, what's weird is that like, as I've mentioned, I grew up so poor is when I started to get so much public support during covid, god, it never sat around with me, never, like people. I woke, I went to bed and told one of the reporters, ch Chris Brassad from the Palm Beach Post. I was like, look, I have to keep doing this. You know, people became they trusted this thing I built for the state and now they don't know where to go. Half the state thinks that it's propaganda. The other half thinks that I'm still seriously running it and it's not true. They don't know what to do. So I'm going to keep doing it and I'm going to do it better than I was ever allowed to do while I was there and you know, maybe people care, maybe they won't. He published his story.

Speaker 3: 1:14:14

I went to bed the next day. I woke up with 68 000 in my gofundme, which was more than I took home in a year, and I remember thinking this is a joke. This is a joke, right, because when I worked for the state, a whole year worth of work wasn't worth this, you know. And then it climbed to like $250,000. And I, honestly, I was like I would have kept doing this even if you guys hadn't given me anything Like I had computer equipment I had to buy, so you know that was one thing. But I was like this feels weird and so I gave it all away and my husband hated me for it. If you're going to run out of money. I was like surely by now I'll have a job.

Speaker 3: 1:15:00

You know I had no idea what I was getting into and so I gave it all away. And I gave it all away and I gave it to very worthy causes, mostly veterans groups, nice nice. But you know, feeding the Gulf Coast and other organizations and people that helped the kind of people that I was when I was a kid and I didn't think I'd be broke.

Speaker 3: 1:15:25

But you know I'm broke. So whenever it comes about that I'm no longer broke, I already kind of I'll say this without him hearing me have a plan for what to do with it. And yeah, I'm going to buy a fucking house. That's the first thing Buying a goddamn house. I want to own my house, free and clear. Nobody's going to give me a dollar worth of credit anyways, so I've got to buy in cash and after that kids, college funds, you know all that, whatever. They need a deposit for their future house, whatever, and then I'm gonna give it all away again.

Speaker 3: 1:15:59

So I mean, like some of these whistleblower organizations that were there for me when I was really down in like March of this year, one of my friends, john Barnett, he into one of my stalkers in Florida. There was a civil investigation into one of my stalkers in Florida. It didn't seem to stop them. Nothing seemed to stop them. And the way they were going after my kid, I, honest to God, felt like my family would be safer if I wasn't here, if I didn't exist, and that was the closest to suicide I've ever been in my life.

Speaker 3: 1:16:48

And, um, I actually I'm supposed to save this for the book. I think I told you that last time I was like I'm terrible at saving these for the book. Um, it'll be with less drunkenness and more poise in the book. But I actually parked somewhere and there was a pair of scissors in my husband's dashboard and I man, they weren't sharp enough. I was ready. I started crying and then I went to the hospital and I was like I need help. I need like somebody help me. Took a week to detox out the internet, read a bunch of stuff from Taylor Lorenz, who really helped get me through it, and some retreat, mark ruffalo, and it was better. But you know, the people who did not stop calling me that night were the other whistleblowers that I've met through all of this. So, like tyler schultz called me like a hundred times, he was one of the theranos whistleblowers who also tried to kill himself at one point.

Speaker 3: 1:17:49

I mean, his grandfather was secretary of state of the united states and the chief funder of theranos, which was elizabeth holmes scam project wow, um, you know he he's very open about it now, but, um, when we were first starting to meet each other four years ago, he told me it was like, yeah, I, my parents, had to put their house up for mortgage to pay to keep me out of jail, because that is how far this went. And there were people following me. There are people following um. The other girl who I know from theranos and I can't remember her name right now it starts with an e emily maybe um, yeah, she was regularly herself. We both were, because we thought that was it and he did not stop calling me that night.

Speaker 3: 1:18:39

The head of whistleblower for america, jackie geary, did not stop calling me that night. Jane Turner, who is the founder of National Whistleblower Center, would not stop calling me that night. And you know you think it's useless to call and ring somebody over and over again, but I saw that on my phone and they are the ones who made me go get help and were one of the reasons why I took that big break from Twitter. And I think that whistleblowing is a whole thing. It is a unique. It's like going through Katrina. Only people who have actually been through it can really understand what it is and that community saved my life, so they are getting a big shot.

Speaker 2: 1:19:26

Whatever I get to continue to support people like me that come to me and I'm glad you're revealing this because I don't think most people ever really even pause to think about the emotional aftermath for a whistleblower.

Speaker 3: 1:19:45

Just that alone. Most of them we only see through the media, so we see their stories covered, like Julian Assange. Have you ever actually read any tweets by Julian Assange? Most people haven't. Most people haven't read any letters by him. They've seen media coverage of him written by other people. And what was kind of unique about my story was that all of it played out publicly every minute every day I put it out there because I felt like I had nothing to hide.

Speaker 3: 1:20:17

And the second that I was thrown out there I was like well, if you guys really want to know what's going down, let's really talk about it. And I think that's that's one of the reasons I'm kind of one of these ambassadors for the whistleblower programs now is because I didn't shy away from how ugly and how dark it gets. Most people are ashamed of feeling suicidal like tyler. It took him 10 years to see justice. I mean, elizabeth holmes was just convicted and sent to prison, like last year. She had to rebrand herself. She even got pregnant on purpose, I'm pretty sure to try to get the jury to lighten her sentence a little bit. And they were like fuck that bitch, you're going to jail.

Speaker 3: 1:20:59

She rebranded as Liz and I think it was New York Times wrote this really fluff article. It's like oh, she wants you to call her Liz. Now I was like, what are you doing? People won't realize this.

Speaker 3: 1:21:09

There was a third Theranos whistleblower, ian Gibbons. He killed himself, he fucking killed himself the day before depositions. And Erica Erica Chong is the other one and Tyler Schultz survived, but barely. They barely fucking survived. And it is hard. And that wasn't even a government organization, that was a private company and each of them was. They had these family dynamics going on. They were young, they were just starting their careers, which meant that the value of what they had to say wasn't great. And I I know something about that. I wasn't as young as tyler because he was like 25 when it happened. You know I was 30 but I'm a woman, so I lost a few years worth of value coming forward and, um, people don't realize how hard that is john barnett killed himself after the second day of his depositions, before he had to go back for the third day, after the second day of his depositions, before he had to go back for the third day.

Speaker 3: 1:22:09

And you know he drove up there for depots, and depots are considered to be the lowest moment in your case, like it is the opposite. Organizations or companies or governments chance to interrogate you about everything in your fucking life. And they do, believe me, they fucking. I can't talk about anything that's happened in depositions yet because of legal issues. I'm not going to blow up a case for that, but they fucking do.

Speaker 3: 1:22:33

Between day two and three, he drove to his hotel, he sat there in his truck and he was a real Southern boy too, which is why I think we connected and wrote some stuff on a scrap piece of paper and shot himself, and one of the last things that he wrote, the last message that he sent to the whole world, was that whistleblower protections were bullshit. That was the last thing he said to the whole world, and he was right. They're not going to get any better under Trump. But there's this glitz and glamour of being a whistleblower. I'm pretty. I mean, I feel like confident enough to be able to say that I'm pretty. Not maybe last session that we did this because I didn't do my hair, I wasn't wearing makeup. No, no, I look pretty. No, no, I look pretty.

Speaker 3: 1:23:24

No, you don't have to choose to be yeah well, I'm aware of the privilege that I have as a highly educated white. Maybe a woman is a double-edged sword. By being attractive and having degrees of communications, I can effectively say these things, so I have an advantage. Effectively say these things, so I have an advantage. But you know it's still. It is a.

Speaker 3: 1:23:49

After the initial media frenzy fades, you are left alone, isolated, blacklisted. No government's going to want to hire you if you've already proven yourself to be a spiller of secrets. No profit for-profit company is either. Like that's the last place you're gonna end up and something that, if you're like me and you had spent more than a decade studying and working towards something, to be asked to set aside all of that work especially for someone like me who grew up poor with nothing and had to, like, come, overcome some fucked up obstacles to get there, it's heartbreaking. I mean I I'm close friends with um sharon walkins, who's the enron whistleblower, and we were having dinner one day and there was another one of the enron whistleblowers there and she said the other one told me she's like oh, you should really try to get back into climate science.

Speaker 3: 1:24:44

And sharon just looked at her don't give her false hope. Dead in front of me Said don't give her false hope. This is never going to happen. It's like you need to find public speaking. You can become a life coach. She said you will never go back to what you did. No one will trust you. And the whole Enron thing was like what in the 90s, early 2000s, and so this is a woman who has. She was Times Person of the Year. You know Right, she fucking knows. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:25:21

And I was caught at that moment and this was a summer between accepting that and acknowledging that and refusing to believe it.

Speaker 3: 1:25:28

And that's a tough balance to do. It is. It really is because you're like I'm. They're like, oh, you're so young. I was like I'm 35, so I'm that young, I need to kind of get my shit together. I've got kids and I was like I remember listening to her and be like you know what she's right, but she doesn't have to be. And a month and a half later I I was fired as a climate scientist again for the federal government.

Speaker 2: 1:25:51

So it's like that to me, was the moment I was like my life still has value.

Speaker 3: 1:25:54

Everything that I work for still matters. Talk a little bit about it Now. Trump may just like destroy Noah's.

Speaker 1: 1:25:59

I don't know, I'm still here. I'm still here, and I said I saw you.

Speaker 2: 1:26:05

That had to be a really validating moment for you, though, to know that you had gotten this, as you've already said this really solid piece of advice from somebody who's been there, done that, and yet you demonstrated that, even as good as your advice was in general, that, when it comes to the specificity of me, I didn't have to subscribe to that yeah right, nothing if not stubborn.

Speaker 3: 1:26:35

But you know, jaron's from texas. She's a southern girl, so is the other lady that was with her. Um, you know, tyler grew up very privileged in california. I mean, like I mentioned, his grandfather was the the single most decorated public servant in history, like a Ross president, secretary of state department of, like all of it. This guy was one of the most powerful people in America. His own grandfather was against him when it came to Theranos. That is, I got to be honest. That's a whole other level of fucked up, that, and I've told him this to his face. I that is. I gotta be honest. That's a whole other level of fucked up, that, and I've told him this to his face. I don't think I could have dealt with If I didn't have my full-fledged family support. I don't know what the fuck I would have done If I had my grandfather meet me in a room where he had lawyers listening in the next room to try to record me saying something self-incriminating. I don't know what the fuck I would have done and that's what he did and his grandfather did that him

Speaker 3: 1:27:32

and you know it's because he's. So he bought into this lie of elizabeth holmes and and her creative genius. Now, don't get me wrong, she was smart, but I mean her career before she went there was exceptional, really was. Um, he refused to listen. His own flesh and blood refused to listen when he said, look, I work in this fucking lab, I ran the tests. It's bullshit, he said. He told me once, near the very end, his grandfather said something to him like it wasn't remorse, necessarily, it wasn't, I'm sorry, but it was more of an acknowledgement that he had been taken advantage of, and that was all the closure he got before he died. And so you know that's how he left. His grandfather was like the most important person in his died, and so you know that's how he left. His grandfather was like the most important person in his life.

Speaker 2: 1:28:28

Yeah, I don't know wow that that's that's tough that's yeah that is losing heart.

Speaker 3: 1:28:34

if I had been isolated by my own family, I I have no idea. I I was lucky because I had an established academic career before this. I had already won awards in my field. I was getting national recognition, even by the Trump White House administration, for what I was doing in Florida. I had something to prove my worth when shit went down, yeah, and had my family, I had my whole academic field behind me.

Speaker 3: 1:29:04

They all issued public letters of condemnation both when I was fired and when I was rated. If I didn't have that I I would be like ian gibbons, I'd be dead, and you know it's people really like oh, we love our whistleblowers. Do you really have you followed up on any of them? Have you checked in how hard it is for reality winner, who's had three movies made about her, by the way, in the last year and a half? How they cannot legally profit off any of them? Not a cent as part of her plea agreement served the longest sentence ever under the Espionage Act, for leaking public should have been public documents about how russia actually interfered with the 2016 campaign. Nothing that she said was untrue, but she had served the longest sentence in us history under the espionage act. She can't find a fucking job because she's a convicted felon and I've been trying to, whether wanted or not, assist in this public campaign to get her pardon, because she served the fucking time she served served her country, you know, as a member of the armed forces and then for years afterwards she should be able to start life over.

Speaker 3: 1:30:14

She's so young and wide awake away. She's fucking brilliant and hilarious and kind of like bizarrely like me, which is probably why I like her so much and also why we clap a lot of the time. So I mean, we had this very similar like. I was always in trouble as a kid. I was always different. I wanted something more. I wanted to see the world, I wanted to learn these languages and I love and adore her. But she actually went to prison for that shit and she did it fully knowing that what she did was worth it. How many people who know her story, have watched her movies, have written to the Biden administration to pardon her or, you know, sent her money on Venmo or done anything else to actually help her? Because as soon as, like the glitz and the glam fades, there's still a person that's left to deal with the fallout of committing truth-telling, which is what Dan Ellsberg called it and which goes back to the Democratic Party thing, is, he told me once he was sorry. I still get.

Speaker 2: 1:31:15

Knowledge.

Speaker 3: 1:31:18

Losing Dan Ellsberg was hard, really hard. I never imagined in my life that someone as important and influential in American history would know who I was. Much less think that much of me. He said I actually inspired him more than Ed Snowden and he loved Ed Snowden. I don't, but he did, and every time something happened I went straight to him. Every time something happened I went straight to him and yeah, he, uh, sorry, he passed a few years ago. Um, he used to tell me.

Speaker 3: 1:31:53

He said the problem is that people are afraid to be called names. So democrats, especially, are afraid to be called names. And if you're too afraid to be called a bad name and you are not cut out for the shit, I mean that man he went to print he was being faced with the espionage act as well ransacked his psychiatrist's office. They tried to drug him which some also happened to me, um, before a major peace conference, so that they tried to drug him with lsd so that he would seem delusional and crazy and maybe stripped down and go nuts. Um, and he said if you're too afraid to be called bad names, you should just quit now, because that is the least of the things that you could do wrong in this world, and I think about that, about Democrats, all the time.

Speaker 3: 1:32:47

I was like you're afraid about anonymous accounts, probably Russian bots on social media, not real life Flooding your comments every time you mention me in a story. I mean because that's what happens. I mean I've had that at least on Twitter, nowhere else but Twitter. Mean, I've had that at least on twitter, not nowhere else but twitter. Um, this whole apparatus dedicated to do nothing but attacking any mention of my name, to the point where somebody who works the tallahassee democrat told me we don't cover you because we want, don't want to deal with bullshit. That happens when we do, and I remember I was like, well, thanks for being honest, which was in one way, but at the same time.

Speaker 3: 1:33:26

I'm like, excuse me, what's your fucking job?

Speaker 3: 1:33:30

And you know, that happens, and I've noticed that even a lot of my allies online will back away, because as soon as they mention me and you've probably experienced this too the same 10 or so accounts show up, almost in succession Sordo, who's the account that's run by, brian Griffin, who is Ron DeSantis' press secretary, and then a whole lot of Dan Goldwasser, cheryl Renaud all of these people who have the police and criminal charges filed against them will show up with a bunch of bullshit, and if we are yielding our supposed heroes to a bunch of fucking internet trolls and that's enough to scare us off, we are fucked.

Speaker 2: 1:34:15

We are truly, truly fucked. I could not agree more. I think at first, when I first started my newsletter, there were a lot of people that even though they subscribed, they weren't sure the connection between what it was about, which was building resilience and overcoming your anxiousness and your excessive worry and just kind of getting your emotional shit together and being able to stand up to more right, and they were trying to make that link to politics and this and my position on that then, and will continue to be, until you can get to the point where it doesn't matter what insult, what full word somebody throws at you. You're like you know what, fuck you. I don't have a problem with that. The problem I have is, if you try to undermine the truth, I'm telling then that irks me, just won't. Right Now, if you want to attack me, you want to attack my family, who you don't even know, that's fine, and so that's my emphasis there. And I always said that winning an election is every bit as much about being able to drive your own bus emotionally.

Speaker 2: 1:35:49

Your own bus emotionally because and I think we are at a moment right now that underscores this when people are starting to back off because of fear right, trump's about to come back right and it's like look, that's where, having your head screwed on tight and being able to regulate your own emotions, that's what gets us to the point where we can say we save democracy because we said fuck it. I'm not backing down because I've got enough. I I can regulate my emotions enough. I can acknowledge my fear, but I can acknowledge it while I'm saying fuck off, it's not.

Speaker 3: 1:36:25

You know what I mean yeah, but the problem is with that is that the costs are not equal, like no, they're not today.

Speaker 3: 1:36:33

You know there were these um, I just found out about, even though it happened days ago, these two george mason students whose house was raided over alleged graffiti that appeared on campus on the ground somewhere, which I thought for sure, if it was that bad, I'd be able to find a story about it or mention about it. Nothing, I mean. I checked the ADL, I checked everywhere. Nobody shared a picture of this alleged graffiti. Two female students One was a master's student at George Mason, one was an undergrad. There was a third kid in the family who was already a graduate and an alumni and works in very prominent position. George mason is a very me. You know hoity-toity they say. You know what I mean I do it's not.

Speaker 3: 1:37:21

It's a different cut from a different. Yes.

Speaker 3: 1:37:35

But the oldest brother and the two younger sisters were all presidents of Students for Justice in Palestine and a couple of days ago their house was raided by the FBI because George Mason forwarded something to the FBI that said that there was some kind of graffiti on the ground. First of all, you don't fucking raid somebody with the FBI with over a dozen officers without a warrant which is, for me, kind of a personal thing because of graffiti. You better have more than that. They rounded them the whole family up, the parents, everybody else in the house, put them in the living room for hours, refused to show them a warrant, stole all their electronics and didn't tell them about anything that was happening. I was like this is deja vu.

Speaker 3: 1:38:19

In florida, four years ago from tomorrow, police showed up to my house armed like guns drawn. One was pointed at my face with the window nest on my door, told me to open the door, did not have a warrant, waited three hours while they went and got a warrant, rounded us up in the living room at gunpoint, kept us there for hours while they waited for it, handed me a list of all the electronics that they had taken on their way out and there was nothing I could fucking do about it because of an alleged text message sent to former colleagues telling them to and this is a quote speak out and be honest. A charge that took two fucking years for them to dismiss two fucking years. And when I was reading the story about these two girls I was like this this sounds like oh, it's complicated. No one in that family, the second that they ever hear somebody knock on the door, will ever be okay again no I agree, they don't.

Speaker 3: 1:39:19

They don't realize that, but like if somebody knocks on my door, everybody my family, hides my six-year-old daughter will run upstairs and run under her bed and hide and she was like two when that happened. And they will never feel safe in the George Mason community ever again, even though they're not charged with a crime and it's not even clear that they're being investigated for a crime. George Mason suspended both of those students, both of them the same day and you know there have been 80 different. I think it was 80 organizations and universities signed letters saying like no bad job. Um, but when I tried to share this online and I gotta tell you I'm not a conspiracy theorist type person that shit is being so suppressed anytime you mention anything involving Israel or Gaza. It's like the view count, the stats on it are a fraction of what I normally get and I mean you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 1:40:17

If I went to Twitter and you know I had 350-whatever-thousand followers, maybe 3,000 would see them, maybe two, that's it. And I experimented with this today. It was my first post back on Twitter and I was like the entire country actually the entire international community was up in arms when this happened to me because I was rated without a warrant for speech that the governor did not approve of, for something that doesn't sound like it should remotely be a crime, and because I was going against what the state narrative was, the whole world rose up against that. I mean, I did Channel 4 in Britain, I did Australia, I did New Zealand, I did Greece. I did New Zealand, I did Greece, I did France, and yet no major news outlets are even hovering what happened to these girls 30 miles away.

Speaker 3: 1:41:12

And to me it's like if we decide that we're only outraged when these injustices happen to somebody we agree with, then we're no better than them. Right, and I mean I obviously fall inside of being pro-palestine, but even if I didn't, if these had been girls who were raided because they hung up, you know the, the hostages, posters all over the place, um, I would be like this is not acceptable. I I mean, if it had been that situation, honestly I think there would have been congressional investigations, the university would have been put on notice of being defunded and the whole situation would be different. But it makes me very reticent to speak when I'm seeing young girls, and I mean I'm in my late 30s now. If you're over 35, you can say late, 30s, 30s now if you're over 35 you can stay late 30s.

Speaker 3: 1:42:08

So for anybody, for me that's like 25 and young younger you know, like a kid um, that's what happens when you get your mid-30s everybody 25 and younger. These girls will never be okay again ever, and I speak that from experience. Neither were their parents or any other children who were there. And for what?

Speaker 3: 1:42:26

her fucking and I think I, I think when we look at your situation like I'm going to kill so and so at x time and x date, to warrant such? Because when somebody actually called my husband's cell phone and left a voicemail threatening to fucking kill me, the literal words it it was three sentences was I'm going to kill you, I'm going to kill your family, you're going to die, motherfucker. You think they rated his health? No, they shut up, knocked on the door and he was like, oh yeah, I did that. And they were like, oh well, don't do it again. And that was it. So this is a strategic, acceptable point of view and that is scary.

Speaker 2: 1:43:14

How many situations like.

Speaker 3: 1:43:16

Like I'm not an acceptable point of view. Does that make it okay to throw me in jail again?

Speaker 2: 1:43:20

How many situations like yours do we think we are going to see nationwide under Trump?

Speaker 3: 1:43:27

Oh, holy fuck, I hope. Well, I will say H5N1 is scary.

Speaker 2: 1:43:36

That was my next question.

Speaker 3: 1:43:39

Dr Rick Bright, who is one of the nicest people I've ever met, is super supportive. He was a federal whistleblower for COVID-19. He was on the original task force. He was trying to warn people that I'm managing this so well and they came after him. He's great now. He's at the Rockefeller Institute. He's making waves. He's been sounding the alarm about H5N1 for 13 months. He's gone to the White House. He's gone to the White House. He's gone to the Biden administration.

Speaker 3: 1:44:07

Essentially, what has happened is they said we can't deal with another pandemic right now, not in the sense of logistics, but as publicity, and that has allowed this to go unchecked. And this is where I get, where most democrats are like, okay, we don't listen to her anymore, um, because I talk about things like this. But most of the deaths during covid happened under biden and the 20 I think just 22 whole show at congress where they refused. They like actually did not allow people to wear masks on camera because they wanted the appearance that they had defeated COVID, even though clearly, as we're seeing with current numbers, we did not, because that was their promise was to end COVID pandemic, which was an unrealistic promise to begin with. They should have just promised to deal with it in an effective manner, not to, you know, tidy this up, because the truth is that by the time Biden was elected, containing it was not possible. You know, it's been really frustrating to watch the same people who put their lives, their careers, on the line for COVID be ignored, um, be ostracized for doing the same thing about h5n1.

Speaker 3: 1:45:31

I mean 90 percent. 90 percent, that that is a huge number. I don't know if people know who listen to know how many like birds we have that we eat, that are in stock. 90 had to be euthanized in the last year because of this virus. That is how widespread it is. It is fucking scary. We've had our first few cases of non-direct contact with animals in California, oregon and Canada. So people who don't work on dairy farms or work on poultry farms, who have been infected from person to person contact. Now this could end up dying out. The virus could fuck up and sizzle out, like 99.9% of viruses do. But what if it doesn't? And do we really want Trump to be president during another pandemic? I mean that is so frustrating.

Speaker 2: 1:46:32

Especially when you keep in mind that the heat he knows, the heat that he caught after he left office and how much that tarnished him for this last run, oh he won't because of COVID Sure for this last run because of covid, not because of the crazy shit or the almost war with iran, um, in syria and pretty much the whole middle east.

Speaker 3: 1:46:53

He lost because of covid sure.

Speaker 2: 1:46:56

so you know then what his approach is going to be if we face another pandemic, he he's going to air he might just fucking euthanize everybody who gets sick with it right away.

Speaker 3: 1:47:08

Who knows, right, I mean, it hurt him so badly and I don't think he intends on not running again. I think that's pretty understood from his own statements that he plans on running again. But he might just euthanize anybody who gets sick to try to quash the spread of it, which is, a not going to work and B one of the most inhumane things you could do. And C partially what China was alleged to have done at some point in their thing, which is a human rights violation and all kinds of other problems. But, most importantly, does not work Because, like Florida, by the time they were willing to admit they had cases internally. We knew there was community spread because we had been so focused on testing people from Asia that we had missed that there was already community spread throughout Florida.

Speaker 3: 1:48:09

The first case that we had recorded was community spread and we did not admit that publicly until weeks later and ultimately ended up being one of the big debates that got me fired. But the first transported case we had was somebody who had recently gone to Turkey and Israel. We weren't even looking in the right fucking places. So this whole like China focus and this is something I have like two chapters in my book related to the xenophobic thing about China, drew all of our attention to that when it really should have been elsewhere, because by the time that China was reporting it, it was already in the Middle East, it was already, you know, in parts of Europe and we had this triage mentality because of Trump, and he absolutely was the one who steered this. He said it was a China virus, like. He said that, like right off the bat, that's who we prioritize testing. I mean, the first person who died their recent travel was to Jamaica and that was it, so at least in Florida.

Speaker 3: 1:49:16

And so we were looking in all the wrong places because we had somebody in charge who fundamentally did not understand what we were dealing with, or even the had the capacity to understand the field that we were dealing with. And, um, that's dangerous, it's incredibly dangerous. And if somebody goes and tells trump, look, we, we killed 90 percent of the birds, but you know, 92 percent are still infected, I'm probably just saying kill them all again, you know, or what dull import birds or whatever irrational things he thinks is causing it? Because this is a virus that originated here, um, much like the 1918 lupoenza, which was a virus that originated, I think, from either nebraska or kansas and met up with the seasonal flu in World War I and then just caused mass death throughout the world and was dubbed the Spanish flu because the Spanish were not involved in that war Right.

Speaker 2: 1:50:15

I think it started in Kansas.

Speaker 3: 1:50:17

Kansas or Nebraska, it was one of those two At a military base at a pig farm Right, it was a wine flu and soldiers who were going out in 1918 to you know, in the trenches, which trench warfare is a whole, I'll let the military people speak, as how awful that was. Let the disease spread like wildfire. But spain was not involved in that war. Spain was in the midst of its own civil war, and so spanish newspapers were the only places that were not propagandized by either the Axis or the Allies and published about all of these soldiers' just mass deaths. I mean, we're talking about millions of people just dropping dead in these trenches, and so that's why we call it the Spanish Flu, because the only way that you could hear about it was through Spanish newspapers. And they had to be smuggled too, because the United States tried to stomp that news out like the fuck out.

Speaker 3: 1:51:07

Pretty much the only news you could get at that point from the 1918 flu was in, like the two major newspapers over there, like the New York Times, the Washington Post, or officially government-sanctioned, like theater propaganda videos, and so Spanish was like the only way you'd find out. So we called it Spanish flu. It was the United States flu, it was the United States pandemic, and so is this one. And Trump is an idiot. He's surrounded by idiots. He disappointed RFK to what? The head of the NIH, which he also plans to defund. So kind of wondering if, like if RFK's pissed about that because he's like, wait, you're defunding conflict funding. You know, um, yeah, I know, right, like that's like the third agency that's on the chopping block, right after, like, the va and my agency. So, um, but you know, having people in charge of the cdc like jay or russia or whatever his name, is a vaccine skeptic or whatever he wants himself.

Speaker 3: 1:52:04

That's way worse than where we were in 2016.

Speaker 2: 1:52:07

Oh, my God.

Speaker 3: 1:52:07

You know it's an. Anthony Fauci was the head of the NIH back then and he had been there for like 30 years and no his. You know he didn't always handle things perfectly, but he handled them as well as anybody could have been expected to. He was not a great spokesperson, but in science we have a saying that you know, know, the top expert in the field is not necessarily the top person that you want explaining the field to the public, but, um, you know, he survived trump, he was there the whole time and, uh, which is incredible when you think, looking back at it, I don't think that would happen.

Speaker 3: 1:52:39

It really is but um, yeah, he stayed there the whole time, which to?

Speaker 2: 1:52:44

me that always spoke to me as much of a beef as Trump now says he had with him. The fact that he kept him the whole time tells me he knew how badly he needed him.

Speaker 3: 1:53:00

Yeah, he was serious was serious and every instinct that he had to like fire him. When he embarrassed him or when he laughed at him, at least somebody in that circle was like you can't fire him. We actually kind of need this guy to handle this shit. Um, I don't know who that magical person was probably the person who penned the anonymous op-ed in the new york times that they got rightfully panned for doing. Maybe that person's still there, maybe they're not, but having J whatever his name is run the CDC, that's not a good sign.

Speaker 2: 1:53:36

No, not at all. What would you say to people who were in or people who are in your position in florida, across across the united states, when they come face to face with a situation like yours? What would you, looking back, what would your advice be to them?

Speaker 3: 1:53:58

so I have some stock advice and I'm usually paid like 5k a pop to deliver sober so I'm gonna say that you're getting paid like ten thousand dollars to go give this advice in scotland in february well, this is the rum version mama's gotta pay the bills, um, but and I kind of break this down in one of my my videos the way you have to protect yourself first, everything that you know, everything that you have, back it up Offsite.

Speaker 3: 1:54:31

So if you have like Outlook as your state agency, you can export your entire fucking inbox and put it into a CSV file and email it to yourself to your private Gmail to have a copy of it. That saved my ass so much in this lawsuit. I cannot even tell you the second that I started to think that things are off because of things that happened previously in my life. I was like this blind copy myself on this email because it feels like I'm being told to do something that isn't kosher and, um, the first rule to protect yourself is back everything up off of their servers. You can run into complications if you end up backing up sensitive information, so I always recommend people email their supervisor saying hey, is it okay if I work from home? Today my computer's not working? Boom, you're done, you're covered. Yeah, everything that you emailed yourself is good, right, you have to protect yourself and I would say collect enough that if anybody ever questions your version of events, you can prove everything that you're saying and be sure that you can prove everything that you're saying. I've never said something publicly that I could not back up. I even went so far as to, in the early 2020 period, being like I didn't think I had to say I said anything to do with this. It's like he wasn't in these email chains. I was surprised, as anybody else, that he was involved with it. To see him attacking me in front of the vice president was literally paralyzing, like I remember the moment I saw it. To see him attacking me in front of the vice president was literally paralyzing, like I remember the moment I saw it.

Speaker 3: 1:56:11

I was in a hotel. This was my first day off since February I think of that year, january, february. My parents had lost their house in a tornado in April and they were staying in hotels. Somebody wanted to go see them and I went downstairs to the lobby and there was MSNBC, there was CNN and there was Foxsnbc, there's cnn and there's fox news. You know the obligatory channels at the, at the mini bar, and my face was on every fucking one of them and I remember thinking what the fuck just happened, like I didn't have, I hadn't said anything to anybody. Why am I this the thing? And luckily I had not done my hair, my makeup and I had on because it was summer and so nobody recognized me. Eventually somebody did and they spit at me, which was crazy. But protect yourself, make sure that you're fully protected, because you have no fucking clue what you're getting into. You might think you know, you don't know. This could go way different than what ever happened.

Speaker 3: 1:57:05

I didn't think it had anything to do with the governor's office at first, and it did. And you know, and now jared moskowitz, who's a sitting congressman, who was the head of the dem at the time, is a witness in my lawsuit and that's public information, because all this stuff is filed publicly, and you know. So I was sitting congress people in my lawsuit because that is how far this went, and so and I see a witness on you and a witness on for you.

Speaker 2: 1:57:30

Is he a witness for you?

Speaker 3: 1:57:32

no, I wouldn't. Um, I think it's a previous conversations that, like I said, I backed up because she should back up everything. If somebody's like, hey, can we talk in person about this as soon as they walk out, you need to email that person a record of everything they just asked you to do and say, hey, thanks for coming by my office. Type, type, type. You just asked me to do X, y, z. Please confirm that this is what you want me to do, so that you have a record of it, because that I cannot express how much that has saved my life of it, because that I cannot express how much that has saved my life not feeling that something was off and not being afraid to create some physical record that that had happened. It's extremely important.

Speaker 3: 1:58:17

I mean, they moved my office to the corner multi-window office. I was like in a cubicle next to the elevator before and it was no windows. It was miserable and I felt like I was like in a cubicle next to the elevator before and no windows. It was miserable and it felt like I was in a cave. They moved me to the corner office to take over the former head of epidemiology's office so that we would email less and so that there'd be less paper trip, which, to me, at the very second they did it, I was like I'm going to take the corner office I mean, half the staff's at home anyway.

Speaker 3: 1:58:43

So what's the matter? And I like windows, but I'm still gonna email and document every single thing that you guys are asking me to do. So if you feel like something is off, trust that like, trust that instinct. If you feel like somebody is washing you, make sure you document that. Somehow. You know record conversations, depending on the laws in your state about you know one or two or all party recording, because even if you can't use it in court, that doesn't mean you can't use it in the media and that's important. And so just create documentation of everything. It sounds simple and it sounds somewhat kind of productive, but if you have to sue the state or God forbid they kill you and throw you in jail, there's something there that can prove that what you said happened happened and I wouldn't be winning this lawsuit without him.

Speaker 3: 1:59:43

I was going to ask you had you not have documented as you did, you'd be in a much different, much different position I mean even the things that I didn't intend to be documents, like when I texted my mom and my sisters on the way home from the reopening weekend whole debacle and I said that I was exhausted and that people were going to get killed and I didn't sign up for that. I never intended that to be a record, but in my lawsuit it's proof that as soon as shit went down, I reached out to the people that I trusted most in the world my family and told them what was happening and that I I was warned about what to do. My sister kind of became famous from it because she told me to call him with explosive diarrhea and yeah, and I said that it wouldn't work, like they didn't have anybody to run the shit. Afterwards she was like nobody questions explosive diarrhea and so there was like this whole self-pandemon with my sister that developed um, but none of them want fame, they don't want to be attached to any of this. That's the other part of this.

Speaker 3: 2:00:50

My nephew was just going through this whole fundraiser thing for his high school and my older sister sent out a text saying, oh, can everybody share? And I was like you sure you want me to share it? And she was like oh no, not you, I meant everybody else. I was like I can't even do like normal people things anymore. Yeah, like I can't share my nephew's popcorn fundraiser because I know that the stalkers that follow me will figure out what school he goes to and then they'll figure out what school my teacher, my sister teachers, teaches at and then they'll harass her, they'll harass the staff, she could lose her job and I think a lot of times we don't realize that that's part of this, this whole public life thing. It should not be. There are laws already on the books that prevent that kind of harassment. There should not be exemptions for people like me who are quasi famous or somewhat famous or have a social media following because they don't even do like regular media anymore. I walk back from all that. That should not make that kind of shit.

Speaker 3: 2:01:54

Okay, if I was a normal person, somebody did that they'd throw their ass in jail. Somebody went and tracked down my sister and my nephew because of his popcorn fundraiser, because he was associated with me and harassed the school. They'd be a fucking crazy person and they'd be thrown in jail. But because they're paid by DeSantis and he's the governor and I'm famous, nothing happens. And again, if Democrats weren't fucking cowards, they would enforce some of these laws.

Speaker 3: 2:02:23

But every time I report something to the FBI, they're like, oh yeah, we really time. I report them to the fbi, they're like, oh yeah, we really gave him a talking to. It was like you threw me in jail not the fbi, but sure you put me in jail for a text message that two years later you had to admit that I didn't send. And you won't do anything about these people threatening to kill me or scouring the Internet every 24 hours for every possible combination that you can misspell my name so that you could find a dispatch in which I called for help for my son. My autistic minor son, who's a private citizen, does not have social media so that you could publish it and make me look like a bad mother. Does not have social media so that you could publish it and make me look like a bad mother.

Speaker 2: 2:03:09

It's, it's reached a level of insanity. I I mean it really has anybody who wants to put themselves out in front, to lead in any kind of way. They really have to to think of these things. No, you have to know.

Speaker 3: 2:03:28

And that's the thing I didn't know and I didn't consent. I was thrown out there Like I had not done a public interview, I had not made a public statement. I was hiding in a hotel room, worried that guys in Russian, like traditional hats, were going to like push me out of a window or something. When DeSantis was with the vice president, in front of the whole fucking world, live saying that I was a sexual predator, which was never true. That was never a thing. That happened. And the job six figure job that I had lined up just ghosted me. And you know it's like in Florida. You cannot sue a public official for defamation if it is considered within the course of their job duties. Believe me, I've I've had these discussions with my lawyers over and over again. They've exempted themselves from defamation suits. The theory is is that your political opponents should not be able to sue you into oblivion if you're running a campaign against them for things that are just completely made up. I was not a political woman.

Speaker 3: 2:04:32

I was not a political person in any shape or form, but yet, because that was Ron Sanchez's official duties, he can say literally whatever he wants.

Speaker 2: 2:04:42

He can call me a Nazi.

Speaker 3: 2:04:44

He can say that I showed up to like antifa meetings, which you know it wouldn't be that bad, but you know, that would be less harmful to me than what he did say. He can literally say whatever he wants and there's nothing anybody can do about it, and that that is. It's a powerless feeling and, I have to admit, sometimes people feel rageful Like they want something to break. They want to break something over what has happened to them because it's so wrong. But I had the benefit of having the public and I have to wonder and this kind of goes back to the whole healthcare guy, the DDD guy If I didn't, what would I have done? You know, would I have done? Would I be like Ian Gibbons at Theranos, just giving up, or would I be like the DDD guy, taking shit into my own hands?

Speaker 3: 2:05:37

I was extremely privileged to have the audience and the platform that I did. Most people don't have that. That's why I'm coming back to twitter, which is a nice preface to that, because instead of telling my story, which there's a movie about, there's going to be a second movie about. You know, people have heard it. It's in like cosmo, it's in the mighty hero. Oh my god, I I want you to stop talking about it. Instead of doing that, I'm going to start telling other people's stories, because I spent the entire day today listening to people saying if someone would just understand why I came to this country and what I want for my life, what I'm going to do for this country, maybe they wouldn't see me as the enemy. Those are the stories I want to tell. I want to tell the stories of people like me who don't look like this, who don't get that attention. Um, because horror is poor, yes, but white is white, and white always comes with privileges.

Speaker 3: 2:06:41

And, um, you know, this happened to a fellow geographer. I don't know if we talked about this earlier in the year or if that had happened yet. There was another geographer who worked for the state of Florida, who turned whistleblower against the Sandas and attracted his ire. I made a lot of videos about him, I posted a lot about him. He blew the whistle on a subversive plan to basically turn public state lands that were protected into Gulf Corses for rich people, and he was specifically tasked with designating the area that would be turned into protective land, into Gulf Corses, and he was like you know what? What this is fucked up and so he leaked into the media. He was fired for unauthorized communication with the media, which is a weird thing, um, and the first thing I did when I heard that story, I was reached out to him, was like, get the fuck out.

Speaker 3: 2:07:42

I was like if you do a TV interview, they will come after you. If you tweet about it, they will come after you, and you think that it'll last like a week or whatever. It will not stop. It has been four and a half fucking years for me. Every day, everything I say is tracked by these people online. Everywhere I go is tracked by these people online. They search my face in Google Images to see if I appear on things to find me to criticize and attack the organizations that I'm associated with. It will not fucking stop.

Speaker 3: 2:08:13

I helped him raise like $230,000 and he got the fuck out of Dodge and I was like, if I had me back in 2020, that's exactly what I would have done Raise the money, get the fuck out. Never look back because this I still don't know if it's worth it and I think that's like four years ago. If you had asked me on this evening before the raid, I've told you to be. Absolutely Every you know having, like Rebel Cole from Florida Atlantic or whatever, harass me and make weird creepy rape threats. It's like what is that? What is that really? You know, I'm making a difference. I'm telling people what's actually happening and they're informed, which is all I ever wanted. But four years and one day ago, that completely changed and he listened to me, which was great because, uh, now he's safe and his daughter is safe and he's got 230 000 to figure out what the fuck to do next with the, which I don't know.

Speaker 2: 2:09:23

Well, I think that's probably the most honest answer that anybody could give. Is that um, I, depending on the moment of the day, I question even now whether it was worth it, because it most things aren't that crystal clear. You're going to have those, you know, peaks and troughs where there are days where you're like, fuck yeah, it was worth it.

Speaker 3: 2:09:48

I'd do it again in a minute, and then you're going to have those fighting the power, you know everything's worth it and then when you find your kids sleeping on the floor crying yeah, you're like this isn't worth it. Right, this isn't worth it. I knew my kid was broken the day the day, fucking night it happened. There's video of him coming into the house with his fist gripped looking down because he's too afraid to look up. He was 11 years old, an autistic kid who had struggled his whole life with adhd and adhd. We didn't have the money to have the autistic testing done yet at that point, but we did later. Now has trauma to add to it and he has absolutely struggled and disantness. People have chosen to make that a public struggle. So even as a teenager he can't go through already difficult things autism, adhd by himself. He has to now have his trauma laid out for the whole world and that really makes it hard when my six-year-old daughter goes to school.

Speaker 3: 2:10:50

She's the school resource officer, which is a cop. For all of last year they had to create a cubby for her where she could run and hide because she was so afraid the school resource officer was going to kill her. She needed a safe place to hide. She used to hide like under this table but there were like a bunch of cords under it. So I had a special meeting. I was like, oh, she set up like a blanket and a little cubby and you know, put the cords away so that she has somewhere to run and hide.

Speaker 3: 2:11:20

The school resource officer and she still struggles with that. She was only in the first grade, she was two and a half when that happened and you know you go back and you look at the video and she's in my husband's arms and she's just looking around and you think maybe she's too little, maybe she's too small, too innocent to have that imprint upon her. But there are periods that she goes through where every single day she asked me if somebody's a nice police officer or not, because even though nobody said that to her, she saw it and you know this and that goes to like research that we have on children who are exposed to, you know, gun crime and violent crime and all kinds of different types of environments and the long-lasting impacts that that can have on communities, and that's why recidivism and continued problems continue within those communities. I just think my daughter was two and a half years old. One event, I mean it's been four years. It's a deep batch but, they're that strongly.

Speaker 3: 2:12:24

yeah, like imagine all the kids out there who don't have the whole world watching video of them going through that outrage. And so I felt really guilty today about quitting twitter about that stuff. But that's why the first thing I posted back after leaving for several weeks was the story about those two students at George Mason, because I was like you know, if these were two Jewish students who had been raided for posting, you know, the hostage posters, there would be congressional investigations, there would be threats of defunding George Mason, there would be all kinds of shit. We have to do better than that, because the second that we allow tyranny to happen to people we don't like, we are inviting it to happen to us right and speaking as somebody who's been there, um and come through it.

Speaker 3: 2:13:19

You have no idea what you're asking, what you're inviting into your life. You think, oh, this will never happen to me. I'm a law-abiding person, guys. I was raided at gunpoint for an alleged text message that they took two years to dismiss the charge. It doesn't fucking matter if you are a saint, they will find your reason, like you said, three felonies, and they will hurt you. They will find your reason, like you said three felonies, and they will hurt you. They will find a way to hurt you the way it hurts you most and what's what people often forget.

Speaker 2: 2:13:48

If they haven't been through something like that is, people always say well, you know, in this country you're innocent until proven guilty. What? They leave out of what? What they leave out of, that is that until that time, you have legal expenses piling up in that period where you're innocent until proven guilty, right.

Speaker 3: 2:14:09

Oh yeah, I get trashed all the time for how much money I raise. I was like you realize that I had to pay a $50,000 retainer just to get my lawyer to take me $50,000 retainer. That doesn't include all the other charges that came after that. I'm very lucky in that my legal team on the whistleblower case is working on contingency or consignment, whichever. There's too much wrong. Now for me to remember which word.

Speaker 2: 2:14:37

One of those C words right.

Speaker 3: 2:14:39

One of those C words that implies that they get a cut of whatever I went yeah well, I don't have to pay them anything now, and it's they've been working basically for free for four and a half years, which, more than anything, is a testament to their confidence in the case, because if they didn't, bet then said that they were going to win, and they weren't convinced that they were going to win a lot of money, they wouldn't bother, um.

Speaker 3: 2:14:58

But for my criminal case there's only one of two outcomes it's dropped or you're convicted or plead guilty. Either way, that lawyer doesn't profit off of anything. So they require that money up front and that's what I had to do. I literally hadn't transferred fifty thousand dollars in one day, um, through this guy to represent me and it was ultimately dismissed. So money well worth it. But, my god, the two years that it took to get to that place. They hung that over me as a threat the entire time. That if I jaywalked, you know, if I failed a drug, I wasn't allowed to drink for two years. I mean for fun to the world. Well, that is mean. That's proof.

Speaker 2: 2:15:43

Right, there's proof. You're not innocent until proven guilty.

Speaker 3: 2:15:45

I know right, like your Second Amendment rights, you think you have those until you're proven guilty. No, you don't. The second that you're charged with a felony, you have to surrender all firearms. You cannot be in a house with firearms. You're not allowed to hold or possess firearms. Your Second Amendment rights boom gone. You cannot drink. You cannot smoke weed, even though weed is legal in most states. In the United States, because I was charged in Florida, I could not smoke anywhere in the country and I never have. I'm still a virgin when it comes to that because I was afraid I'd get drug tested and I'd get fired. But the day that I decide to do that will be very interesting, but a lot of your rights are gone.

Speaker 3: 2:16:23

The second that they arrest you and charge you with a felony and two years two fucking years they tried to play their heaviest hand um three weeks before the election in 2022 the primary and told me that I'd have to admit guilt, drop my whistleblower lawsuit which, by the way, is considered extremely unethical to use a criminal suit to force someone I mean, at least on paper like you would never admit that you were doing that um to drop an unrelated, like pre-existing civil suit. All this other shit. I would apologize. Apologize to the Department of Health. I went there in August. I was already picked off the ballot Because of this whole other thing. I didn't even know if I was going to be eligible for the ballot. I didn't know what the fuck was going to happen.

Speaker 3: 2:17:13

We went into that meeting with the state and they laid out those demands and I literally said go fuck yourself and my lawyer. They're like sweet dude. I was like you want me to draw my whistleblower lawsuit? Is this because you know I'll win? Go fuck yourself.

Speaker 3: 2:17:36

You think you have this leverage because I allegedly sent a text message telling people to speak honest and you know, whatever I was like you can't prove that it even came from my computer. You didn't even take my router, which would have been the only evidence that you needed to prove that it did. But you didn't take that. Instead, you sent a warrant in for my OneDrive where I had backed up a bunch of data, including a roster of publicly accessible contact information. You can get that from a public records request of people working on the ESF-AT. I was like you don't have shit and I literally said go fuck yourself. Like that was the patience that I have with them. About a month later they came back and all of those stipulations were gone and my lawyer, he told me he's like I have never in my career, in 40 years practicing law, had a client say to the state, to their face, go fuck yourself and get a better deal out of it. And I was like well, this is one.

Speaker 2: 2:18:38

That's one reason I can call you friend, though you have to know that I was like. Well, this is one.

Speaker 3: 2:18:41

That's one reason I can call you friend, though you have to know that I was like well, this is not your normal case and I'm not your normal client.

Speaker 3: 2:18:48

He was like I'm starting to realize that, yeah, and so it's like and and you know we've talked about this before if I hadn't grown up the way that I did and I hadn't struggled so much, I don't think I would have found that inner strength to literally the state of Florida threatening me with prison. I mean they were literally coming at me, we will send you to prison for years. And say to them I mean I looked that bitch dead in the eye and said go fuck yourself.

Speaker 2: 2:19:17

And I'm glad you brought that up, because, whereas somebody listening or somebody you know, if it's something that you or I post online, somebody might just see the profanity element of that. But what I think what is what needs to be addressed is that it is an attitude, it is a mind.

Speaker 3: 2:19:43

It is not that big of a deal. Okay, I might be more flexible with my language and profanity and proximity to alcohol, but at the same time it's been proven statistically that people with high IQs curse more.

Speaker 3: 2:19:58

And because we recognize that these are expressive ideas that emphasize a particular feeling or emotion that instantly resonates with who we're talking to. And, plus, I grew up in the south and nobody gives a shit and you know, I didn't grow up at empty dinner parties where you weren't allowed to, like, say these things and right, I think if you talk to most people who have struggled, they're going to tell you their story and it's going to be laden with profanity, because that is the way we learn to emphasis and it is maybe not and you've never seen me live on tv.

Speaker 3: 2:20:32

I never cursed, it's like well you're like I know, battle is specifically talking about this one thing. I'm going to tell you about this one thing for two and a half minutes, and you're going to understand it, and it's going to be in an accessible. I'm going to tell you about this one thing for two and a half minutes and you're going to understand it, and it's going to be in an accessible way. Then I'm going to go back to Twitter and start cursing again about you know how fucked up the whole like capitalism is People are very often, I think, the place where I've been asked the most.

Speaker 2: 2:20:58

people who just knew me from my Twitter feed would watch some of my podcasts, where there there might be entire episodes where I I don't use so much as one curse word. It's very contextual with it. It depends on the person that I'm talking to. It depends on the person that I'm talking to. I did an episode yesterday with Anthony Scaramucci. That was a very different context than the one with you. I make people correct me.

Speaker 3: 2:21:35

You say bad words, potty mouth, yeah, but that's the truth. It's like today we went through this whole storytelling thing, um, and you know, everybody had to boil down basically the life story into three minutes and, despite what probably most of the people who I work with thought I was going to say, I did not tell the story related to florida or covid or the governor or anything like that. I told a story about the girl on the train and when I told it in our small group there's lots of language. But when I was asked to, as the ambassador of 80 people, to make that the final presentation, which for some reason I kind of already knew I was going to end up being not one curse word. So live TV, no curse word. I used to do the Young Turks like once a week, you know, there they will literally send you a guide, like saying if you curse, not only will it be cut but you will be disinvited from anything in the future. Like the Young Turks is extremely strict about that. And obviously live TV if you say fuck, you know as much as Chris and I are close. Chris Cuomo is not going to bite me back if I say fuck, every other word, but there needs to be spaces where we can just talk like normal people.

Speaker 3: 2:22:51

And this kind of brings me back to like I took this advanced political reporting class with the night chair at Newhouse my senior year and she asked us to go out and talk to people like real people. And I think my idea of real people was different from everybody else in my class, which was only like eight people. But I went out and I just talked to workers and I asked them and this was like the New York State Fair. I was like you know what's it like working here? I was like I noticed that these people were silent and they were shuffling between the different booths and it kind of seemed like they had a catch-all job and I asked them to speak to me and when I recorded their interviews there was a lot of language and my professor was like you need to go back and redo all these interviews. There's too much language for us to use. So I was like have you ever considered for a second that that's the way people talk in a different socioeconomic class and that by requiring that someone meets your loquacious standards, you are excluding an entire class of people who have learned to speak this way and frankness to each other and that my camaraderie with these people made them comfortable enough for them to open up, talk to me like I'm one of them, and I thought that was a very good argument. I was like fair enough.

Speaker 3: 2:24:19

But what's interesting is that my coverage of the New York State Fair because I was a double major in earth science and journalism was the first thing I ever had that picked up national news for the New York State Fair that they were being shipped in in bus flows. They were being kept basically in warehouses and empty like trucking whatever they're called containers and being forced to work for like $2 an hour and they had no idea who they were working for but they were supposed to sell shit and make sure everything was stocked. One of the employees actually watched in front of me get in trouble for talking to me and it ended up making national news. It became a state investigation and people went to jail and I remember 10 years later or so, in a night chair with a K at a university is considered the most esteemed position. There's only five in the whole country.

Speaker 2: 2:25:18

There's the night chair of political reporting, which is at Syracuse, no-transcript no kidding, yeah, yeah, that's, you know, probably the probably one of the biggest compliments, and I don't think he thought he was paying me a compliment, but I took it as a compliment. When I was in the Navy I had a captain say to me one time he said I can't say that I approve of your approach to things, but I can't argue with the results. There you go, and you know I took that as keep getting the results.

Speaker 3: 2:26:30

Now, I don't think that's something he would have said, something about the way that you're doing this is working better than it does for other people, right?

Speaker 2: 2:26:37

Although it may ruffle feathers and make people uncomfortable Exactly other people right, although it may ruffle feathers to make people uncomfortable exactly, and that had a big that. That one statement had a played a has played a role in my life since that time because it reinforced an idea that I already had in my head, but I'd never had any body that I respected like that ever feed it back to me and I came away from that going. You know, I am different, I do things different than most people, but here's a guy who's all about the results and I'm making him happy there. You know what I mean all about the results and I'm making him happy there, you know.

Speaker 3: 2:27:22

I mean, yeah, I'm a I'm a very, very close friend who once told me the reason like people like me with adhd cannot rest when something seems off is because our brains work in such a way that we understand right and wrong in kind of these universal terms. Like if this happens to x or y or z, it's wrong, it doesn't matter, you know, and that's kind of like the the whole you know raid on the students thing. Doesn't matter who, what the speech is or who said it. That is wrong and we cannot stop until that thing is fixed. Like we're obsessive almost about it and it becomes kind of compulsory to be like and it's kind of associated loosely with autism as well to be like, nope, not right, not right. I cannot be quiet about it. I cannot do it the way you're asking me to do it, because that's not the most effective means and it's not the most. It will not generate the results that are necessary that describes me.

Speaker 2: 2:28:26

To a t.

Speaker 3: 2:28:29

We see something that is out of place in the context of society, even if that thing is being universally condemned. Um, we must rectify that because it doesn't. It doesn't fit, and people with adhd, 88 add, and possibly autism cannot stop until something fits right and it's like it's.

Speaker 2: 2:28:52

I think it's important to to add to that, like when I make a post that I know is probably not going to be aligned and therefore not perceived as okay, that lines up with the, the core democratic values. Or if I call out somebody in the democratic party oh no, I don't like I. I, I know that as I'm writing it, I, I already know it's never a surprise that, oh, people don't like this. I know that a lot of people, or at least some people, aren't going to like it, but I can't help myself. I have to write it.

Speaker 3: 2:29:39

Somebody needs to see it, and if everybody else is going to shut up about it, then I'm going to be able to say it.

Speaker 3: 2:29:44

I mean, I felt like that with the whole COVID-19 tracking schools thing, as I thought, for sure states or the federal government will take this project. It's very important to know how COVID is spreading in schools and then just watch as all these states plan to reopen Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida were the first. Nobody had a plan and I was like fuck it, I'll do it. That was literally the origin of the whole project with Google. Was that looking around, waiting, expecting some source of authority to take up this problem, seeing that vacuum and being like, OK, somebody has to do this. This is important, Like this is. We're talking about kids. We have no idea how COVID is going to affect kids. We certainly know it's not not effective, as like a lot of people would have me believe, as like a lot of people would have me believe. And now we of course know that it has long-term cardiac and all types of vascular problems and processing problems. So somebody must do this, and I was the first one to raise my hand.

Speaker 3: 2:30:51

And then Google was like she's famous, let's do her, and that's how that whole project that took up like nine months of my life, started was seeing that no one was speaking and deciding that that was not okay. And I know that you and I probably don't agree on Gaza. That's how I felt about Gaza. I was like am I the only fucking white person who is willing to put their reputation, their social media prowess you know all of this on the line for this? Because, frankly, if my reputation is one that shies away from controversial issues, then I've failed. If it's one that people feel like would be afraid to take an unpopular stance, I've failed to take an unpopular stance. I failed. And if it's one that people think would say that it's okay, like what's happening there, then I failed. Because the only reason I ever came forward in the first place was because my privacy had already been sacrificed by not a choice of my own.

Speaker 3: 2:31:57

That was a decision made for me, and at that point I figured you know what. I'm one person and, if all of our models are right, 40,000 people are going to die this summer if we continue on this path, and I don't matter as much as 40,000 people, and it ended up being more than double that, and while I have not yet quantified how much of a difference I made. I'd like to think that I stopped some people from participating in that shit show and if I stopped one person from coming to Florida just one life then everything I did was worth it. And if I can convince 10 people that what's happening in Gaza is wrong and they write their senators, that doesn't feel like a waste to me. It doesn't feel like I've wasted 20,000 followers or whatever I've lost for it.

Speaker 3: 2:32:48

It's like I cannot help but feel like if I was born there, if I didn't have the privilege of being born here and being born the way that I am, if I was brown, with brown eyes and brown skin and I spoke Arabic, who would I be? Who would my children be? And seeing how clearly that image is painted, the second that I even think it and not saying something, what am I really protecting? I'm protecting my comfort, my fame. You know my following, yeah, but what is I really protecting? I'm protecting my comfort, my fame. You know my following, yeah, but what is that really worth if it's not people who are dedicated to the same ideals that I am?

Speaker 2: 2:33:30

yeah yeah well, and I think what's interesting about this because you mentioned, you said I don't think you and I are probably aligned on gaza, but one reason that's not like a, a dividing line between you and I is because I get your passion. Yeah, on this you're not like.

Speaker 3: 2:33:49

Maybe you're anti-semitic for thinking that type of thing. Right, my god, I gotta tell you my husband is like the most anti-israel person in the world. He found out a few months ago from ancestry dna. I should not um, you know exactly.

Speaker 2: 2:34:06

Yeah I do, yeah, I do that he is jewish.

Speaker 3: 2:34:09

He's, um, a ashtonazi jewish from russia, um, so for a thousand years back he's got jewish dna from russia, which means that both of my children, despite how white and, you know, fair skin they are, are part jewish. And, uh, he is too. It didn't change a single thing in his mind. But you know, I thought it changes things for me because I, I mean, nobody's gonna suspect me being jewish but, um, at the same time, nobody would have suspected him either.

Speaker 3: 2:34:43

Apparently, 10% of people in Ancestry DNA's entire database are Jewish and they're European Jewish. And if they really wanted to go full on Nazi psycho when you know, back in the 1930s and 40s they instituted, like these, bizarre face measurement ratios which were not at all founded in science, but anyway they went all full on psycho about it my kids could be subject to that. That leads to the people that Trump surrounds himself with, and it didn't change my mind about Israel or Gaza at all, but it definitely changed my mind about anti-Semitism. And it's been interesting to me finding out that my kids are and I say Jewish the same way that George Santos said it, because we never knew about this until recently. And it doesn't diminish how European they are, but at the same time it's like they could be a target, like if Ancestor DNA surrendered all of its information to the government. I would be fine. I'm like 100% Scandinavian, like Viking princess.

Speaker 3: 2:36:02

Back to you know, the conqueror, william the Conqueror type. I'm more closely related to William the Conqueror than the current royal family is, and I would be cool, but my kids would be in danger. And that has definitely reshaped my view of anti-semitism but has not in any way changed my view of mizuru, and I think that we don't. That's not a distinguishment that a lot of americans are willing to make. You know, and that's a problem I've lost. I lost my best friend in the whole world over this issue. I mean my absolute best friend before I was famous, going back decades, somebody I love to this day so much. Um, because when the story came out about the beheaded babies thing, which was false, I traced it back to where it came from and proved that it was false. You know, it wasn't false in a malicious kind of way at first. It was like a reporter asked a soldier who spoke to another reporter who spoke to somebody in a community who claimed they had heard from somebody else. It was good.

Speaker 3: 2:37:19

It basically took on its life of its own and to the point that President Biden said it in a public address to the American people. He said he saw photos of beheaded babies. Now, within hours after saying that, he walked back, or his teen walked back, rather, it's like he heard that photos exist of 40 beheaded babies and that's where it all started to fall apart. I lost my best friend in this whole world over that, over publishing that that was space, that that wasn't true. Now everybody knows it wasn't true. You know, like medea, san and zio and aljazeera all these people have found the source the same source I found and been like that wasn't true, that didn't happen. It was just a hearsay thing that kind of got out of control and I'm not sure I'll ever get that friend back.

Speaker 3: 2:38:13

When he found out, my husband found out that he was part Jewish because I tweeted about it or something. He came back and he was like has your view changed any? In back? And he was like has your view changed any in Israel? I was like are you kidding me? I was like whether or not my husband is 10% Jewish doesn't change that this was not true. It does not change for me how important it was to say this is not true because I saw it being weaponized to criticize an entire group of people as animals, to make them less humans so that killing them would seem okay, and that has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of children, and he told me he would never speak to me again after that. It's like I can't believe your children. Children are Jewish and you can't be quiet about this.

Speaker 2: 2:39:03

I think that's one of the challenges people have with people like you and I they don't know where the fuck, to what category to put us in right we? Don't make it simple. Right and so.

Speaker 3: 2:39:19

Well, we do, but at the same time we do, we just don just open in their boxes. Exactly, something is either right or it's wrong, and it doesn't matter where the political fallout comes from that or the religious play out or that, even the ethnic play out. It's either right or it's wrong, and that, to us, is like a fine line, is like cannot kill children, like why are we having this debate? Children are innocent, killing them is wrong. But then we come into a society where the people that we have associated with or sympathize with or even been activists alongside of for a decade or longer, are saying that there are some circumstances in which it's a it's acceptable. Yeah, but we had always this. We felt like this unspoken language, like we agreed killing kids is wrong. It doesn't matter who does it, or why, or by whom, or for what purpose. It's wrong. I thought we agreed on that and they don't. We never changed boxes Right. They left us, they found exceptions and we were like no rape is wrong.

Speaker 3: 2:40:31

Rape is wrong no matter who it happens to. Rape is wrong in all contexts. Rape is wrong when there's alcohol involved, or short skirts Does not matter, and they're like what do you mean? A short skirt and we're like man like why did you move to this box, you know? And then that's kind of what it feels like.

Speaker 2: 2:40:49

It's like it does telling kids is wrong there are democrats who loved the idea that, as a Republican, I would question and call out somebody within my own party Right, and so when I came to the Democratic.

Speaker 2: 2:41:08

Right, and you, you know, it's like, hey, wait a minute, right, six years ago, when I did this, you were all like, oh, we, welcome you, we, you know, welcome to our party. Then, when you're not allowed to agree, right, when, when, when there are situations where I deem it appropriate to start questioning president biden or merrick garland or whoever it may be, and then all of a sudden, no, no, no, no, we, we don't do that, shut up and it look wherever I find myself in terms of a party.

Speaker 2: 2:41:45

If there's questionable shit in my mind, then I'm going to ask questions.

Speaker 3: 2:41:49

Which you're not supposed to. Yeah, because they have this idea that that creates division within our party.

Speaker 2: 2:41:56

Sure.

Speaker 3: 2:42:03

But that's partly because they don't want to accept the reality that our party has always been divided. It's been a hodgepodge of different cultures, different ideas, the people who have been pushed out all coming together so like, if you know anything about the seminal tribe, this is, you know, I'm a fourth state for my phd, so so I got to be a little biased here. I think it was Bert.

Speaker 2: 2:42:20

Reynolds. Was he, or was that a myth? I have no idea. Okay, all right, for some reason.

Speaker 3: 2:42:29

I got really into the lore from my undergrad. But you know, when you get your master's or PhD, it's not as much.

Speaker 3: 2:42:36

But you know, it's like the renegade tribe and for anybody who's listening, who doesn't know about them, they were not an actual like ethnic group. They were basically all the people who had been pushed out of their own tribes for questioning things or doing things different or seeing a different path forward, who came together and formed a new tribe. They were Chochotl, chickasaw, they were Biloxi, they were Tunica. You know all of the different tribes that came together and it was like we are the renegades, that is what they call themselves and that's what Florida State to this day calls themselves is the renegades.

Speaker 2: 2:43:12

So that was the Rebecca, and Jack tribe.

Speaker 3: 2:43:13

basically, yeah, people had said you know we have a different way of doing things, but we all kind of want to accomplish the same thing in the end and there was no place for us to do that where we were. So we're creating that place now and I'm really connected with the whole, like seminal mythology and that context, because you know it was about being the odd man out and finding a team of odd men out to accomplish the same goal. You have to agree about everything. You know. That's the thing that I think is our party weakness is right now. They really want us to agree about everything. I was like, first of all, until you recognize the g word in gaza, um, we're never going to agree on everything, and that's what's offshoot the election. And instead of blaming people who saw that, you should blame party officials who pressured harris into not acknowledging that when she very clearly early on wanted to. That would have distinguished her from biden in leaps and bounds. But you know it's. It's like we don't agree on logistics, but what we really want is to take care of each other. Yeah, we want people to be taken care of and all of our efforts are to move that forward. And as long as you're on that team. You're welcome here If you want to join the pitchfork press club into finding this guy who killed the CEO.

Speaker 3: 2:44:46

If you look, really one of us, you don't get it Right, which is interesting to me to see this play out, because the first person who posted condemnation about this was a Democrat. It was Amy Klobuchar, and I remember looking at that and being like how did we weren't tone deaf before? Um read the fucking room. These people have killed tens of thousands of people every year by denying health care claims to children, and if you don't think killing children with the pen is worse, like tens of thousands, than shooting it. The guy who did it, the corrupt motherfucker who did it in the street, maybe we're not on the same team yeah, we're not, we're not listening yeah, and I was like, even if you don't condone it, okay, murder's bad, blah blah.

Speaker 3: 2:45:36

I was like, but would you decides, everybody, if they were cheering on the street because putin died, you're gonna go out and say, oh, we shouldn't celebrate the death of blah blah? I was like because I remember when scalia died, oh, the democrats were happy and we were like ding dong, the motherfucking witch is dead because he had pervasive, negative um legislature can you know a deciding person and people's personal civil rights and individual freedoms and liberty.

Speaker 3: 2:46:09

We all celebrated that motherfucker being dead. I'm not ashamed to say that because he was a person. When hitler died, people were literally kissing in the fucking street in front of the you know the new york square, wherever they have. All any new york-centric person can understand what I'm talking about there but what's it called?

Speaker 3: 2:46:29

um, one of the most iconic american photos ever taken in history is two people kissing two strangers, which is kind of groby and rapey, but okay, aside from that, it's true, two strangers kissing at the at finding out the hitler's death, one of groby and rapey. But okay, aside from that, there's two strangers chasing at finding out that Hitler's dead.

Speaker 2: 2:46:44

One of them, a sailor, by the way.

Speaker 3: 2:46:46

One of them was somebody sent out to help kill him. Because what are you doing by sending a military out to defeat a foreign enemy, if not to kill that person? Right, and we accomplished our goal and Hitler was dead. Whole country erupted in cheers. Now, if they do that for putin, I I expect that the condemnation will be very low, because it'll be like he's an enemy you know, but the problem is is with the political elite.

Speaker 3: 2:47:16

And then you know, the media class is that they don't see ceos, health companies, as the enemy. But we do, because we're the people who actually have to deal with them in life or death situations and paying your rent, paying your grocery bill situations, and it's that disconnect I mean. I went to journalism school at Syracuse, which is fucking Northwestern the best journalism school. They know the type of kids that went to that school and they are not kids that had struggle. Maybe one out of ten had ever wanted for anything in their life and those are the people who are writing stories right now, because I'm in my 30s, so by now most of those people are writing the majority of things that you read.

Speaker 3: 2:47:56

None of those kids know what it's like to be hungry, to sleep on a park bench, to watch everything you've ever known be washed away overnight. They don't know that and so they're looking at the ceo murderers like the work. This is a violation of our terms of capitalism and the rest of us are looking at us like seems like it caught up with him and and they don't understand that. They see it as barbaric. We see it as he kills 60,000 people a year nets $35 million, and you don't see anything wrong with that. We'll see you next time.